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Topic: No. 3 timing with an in-line oil cooler?  (Read 5483 times)

Offline Anthony

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Re: No. 3 timing with an in-line oil cooler?

« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2012, 04:21:54 PM »
Yep, that fixed it. ;D
BTW, if you're trying this at home, don't forget to swap your plug wires around anyway, because of the notch on the dist. cap that only allows you to clip it down one way.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: No. 3 timing with an in-line oil cooler?

« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2012, 11:04:53 PM »
I think I'm going about this the wrong way. Looking at the Idiot's Guide, #1 should be firing when the rotor is pointing at about 5:00, looking from the rear. It is pointing thus, so I think the body of the dist. is turned the wrong way and just needs to be loosened and turned 180 deg. If the gear were in backwards, #1 would fire when the rotor is pointing at about 11:00, right?
Then, obviously, reset the timing.

Sorry if I jacked the thread here. Thanks for the help!
Look at the dist as you would in a Bug . On the norm the notch would be about 2:00 to 5:00 o'clock depending on the type of dist. used. You may have a dist in your FV that has equal lobes and no retard.(old FV trick). You can't just turn the dist 180 deg without doing a wire dance. Really there is no excuse to having the gear out of time. Most of the time it's during a re-build that this happens. This is the reason I have said a thousand times , put the gear/dist in the case FIRST. Set the body notch and rotor somewhere around 2:00-5:00 lock her down. Install the crank by holding # 1 rod on top of stroke, #2 rod on bottom of stroke . The crank gear will engage the dist. drive gear . Amazing !! You are now in static time. Putting the gear in after the case is together can be a lot of fun. Watch out about dropping the 2 washers . They will fall right on the cam gear wrecking it. How many times have you looked in the engine comp. and see the vac. unit jammed up against the oil pressure switch or almost into the fan belt or fuel pump. I don't care if the dist is 33 1/3, 45 or 78 degs. out  fix it right at least for the next mech. that has to deal with this , spending time before it dawn's on him what the hell is going on. I have seen a lot of good VW guy's get caught with this problem.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 11:09:06 PM by Ret.Bugtech »

Offline Zen

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Re: No. 3 timing with an in-line oil cooler?

« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2012, 08:28:57 AM »
AMEN David!  The only real "FIX" is to put the distributor drive shaft in right to start with.  Everything else is just a patch.  There is a tool from pulling the distributor drive shaft with the engine assembled, but considering the risk of dropping the washers when you pull it out, I never try this with a running engine.  I'll just do what I have to do to compensate for the engine builder's screw up and wait till rebuild time to really "fix" it.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: No. 3 timing with an in-line oil cooler?

« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2012, 08:54:30 AM »
AMEN David!  The only real "FIX" is to put the distributor drive shaft in right to start with.  Everything else is just a patch.  There is a tool from pulling the distributor drive shaft with the engine assembled, but considering the risk of dropping the washers when you pull it out, I never try this with a running engine.  I'll just do what I have to do to compensate for the engine builder's screw up and wait till rebuild time to really "fix" it.
It will make you sweat. Just try to get those washers out if you drop them. You don't dare to even turning the engine by hand until you do.  Not many people ever see the brass crank gear after trying to get the dist. gear installed. Some people will force,beat and bang the dist. drive gear in. Nothing like a pile of brass chips,parts of brass shavings, busted teeth down inside the case trying to get through the oil galleries .  You send some people to school, buy them books but they still will eat the pages.

Offline Anthony

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Re: No. 3 timing with an in-line oil cooler?

« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2012, 10:04:07 AM »
I'm still amazed when I find something like this in this car or others. In just this car: ALL the exterior lights wired in a single, unfused series circuit, no voltage regulator (but the generator completely wired up-I found the VR ends of the wires taped up near the transaxle), distributor body 180 degrees wrong, no wiring to the gauges or speedo cable, no brake light, turn signal, hi-beam, wiper motor, backup light wiring. Some of it I'll chalk up to the P.O.'s not being done and when I look at what he did complete, I'm glad he didn't finish. Easier to do it right the first time than to figure out what the other guy was thinking when he, for example, used the oil pressure wire to run from ignition to coil + (I hooked it to the oil pres sending unit, then the car wouldn't start).

Offline 98GTI

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Re: No. 3 timing with an in-line oil cooler?

« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2012, 11:47:58 PM »
Wow. Can you still think? I would have blown my brains by now. What to fix first would have had me beside myself. Anthony you have a lot of patience.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: No. 3 timing with an in-line oil cooler?

« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2012, 08:04:40 AM »
Wow. Can you still think? I would have blown my brains by now. What to fix first would have had me beside myself. Anthony you have a lot of patience.
It can boggle the mind. At times like this is when you grab all the wiring and rip it out and start over using proper "stuff" correctly.  It may take a little longer to complete but at least you will have peace of mind and something that will be reliable. It also saves on the" Jack Daniel" bill  and you will stop kicking the dog. ;D

Offline Anthony

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Re: No. 3 timing with an in-line oil cooler?

« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2012, 03:40:35 PM »
Quote
At times like this is when you grab all the wiring and rip it out and start over using proper "stuff" correctly.

You guessed it-that's the next step!
I forgot to mention the red plastic boat fuel tank strapped to the inner rear fender. Actually not the worst idea, considering how cruddy the actual fuel tank was.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: No. 3 timing with an in-line oil cooler?

« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2012, 04:06:03 PM »
Quote
At times like this is when you grab all the wiring and rip it out and start over using proper "stuff" correctly.

You guessed it-that's the next step!
I forgot to mention the red plastic boat fuel tank strapped to the inner rear fender. Actually not the worst idea, considering how cruddy the actual fuel tank was.
A Brain Flash Back of SC and Stupey comes to mind. ;D ;D ;D

Offline PapaKoch

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Re: No. 3 timing with an in-line oil cooler?

« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2012, 02:56:10 AM »
Anthony, I'm glad you got your problem worked out. I feel like I'm learning a lot just by reading through everyone troubleshoot their problems. I think I am finally understanding how these distributors work. I think I'll go with Zen and The Godfather's suggestion to use the doghouse cooler no matter what I do. I would be interested in which type of distributor everyone has found to be the most reliable on 1600cc single port engines: a vacuum advance or a mechanical advance?  Although I doubt anyone else around the forum is as clueless as me, I found a couple of links that helped me understand what happens in the distributor. Again, thanks for all the feedback.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system4.htm

and

Offline volksnick

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Re: No. 3 timing with an in-line oil cooler?

« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2012, 03:25:08 AM »
I think I'll go with Zen and The Godfather's suggestion to use the doghouse cooler no matter what I do.

Glad I read this before I threw all those pieces back on! How soon are you going to have everything ready to convert to doghouse?

Offline PapaKoch

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Re: No. 3 timing with an in-line oil cooler?

« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2012, 06:20:32 AM »


So far it seems I'll need the following parts (let me know if I am missing anything);
Fan Shroud       VWP# 113-119-025
35mm Fan         VWP# 113-119-031                                            
Doghouse cooler VWP# 113-117-021
Doghouse mount VWP# 113-117-301
Upper Duct        VWP# 113-119-431
Lower Duct        VWP# 113-119-419
Cooler Seal Kit    VWP# 111-198-029
Hoover Bit          VWP# 113-117-323


Yeah, I feel like I just can't ignore Zen and The Godfather's advice. Also, this web site seems to back up what they said:

http://www.vw-resource.com/oil_cooler.html

I'll definitely order the cooler ($40), mount ($20). upper duct ($10), lower duct ($10) and a seal kit ($3) from California Import Parts http://www2.cip1.com/ on Sunday. That way I can get in on their 20% off sale that ends on the 30th.  I just might try to pick up a doghouse fan and fan shroud at a show or swap meet since we've got a few more festivals left this summer.

The hoover bit seems harder to come by. I can't seem to find a parts house online that carries them. Though, I've seen a few hoover bits on the Samba for around $20. That seems pricey though. Worst case scenario I guess I could cut one out of some metal flashing with some tin snips using this guys sketch:

http://www.type2.com/rvanness/sealfram.htm

This seems like a lot of extra effort and bread but if it buys a little more life and dependability out of the engine I guess it's worth it.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 06:23:10 AM by PapaKoch »

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: No. 3 timing with an in-line oil cooler?

« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2012, 08:13:19 AM »
Anthony, I'm glad you got your problem worked out. I feel like I'm learning a lot just by reading through everyone troubleshoot their problems. I think I am finally understanding how these distributors work. I think I'll go with Zen and The Godfather's suggestion to use the doghouse cooler no matter what I do. I would be interested in which type of distributor everyone has found to be the most reliable on 1600cc single port engines: a vacuum advance or a mechanical advance?  Although I doubt anyone else around the forum is as clueless as me, I found a couple of links that helped me understand what happens in the distributor. Again, thanks for all the feedback.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system4.htm

and


Its really a toss-up on which dist. to use on a stock 1600 single  port. The vac.dist. V's  mech dist.   BUT never use a mech.(009) on a stock dual port with the stock 34mm unless you want to drive yourself nut's trying to get all the off the line hesitation (falling on its face)corrected. The next thing you need to know how many timing marks(notches) you have on your crank pulley if you are using a stock pulley. Let me know how many notches you have and where they are and I'll tell you which one to use. Some of these pulleys have multiple marks . You really need to know . If you have a quality alum. pulley with degree marks all around will help you out. Engine ing. timing is very critical on these air-cool critter's. I have seen a lot good engines go up in smoke due to improper timing settings. Keep up posted.

Offline volksnick

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Re: No. 3 timing with an in-line oil cooler?

« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2012, 10:03:03 AM »
Don't buy the upper and lower duct. I even have a few oil cooler mounts. I'll have to check on the bigger fan. And I don't think I have a hoover bit.

 As for Sunday... That's the first. Get your order in today or tomorrow!

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