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Topic: Village VW Service Scam?  (Read 5240 times)

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Village VW Service Scam?

« on: December 17, 2004, 11:12:32 AM »
I've never owned a car bought from a dealer with a factory warranty. I've always been the roadside assitances and warranty ;)

I now have a great 2004 Jetta Wagon TDi that I bought from Village VW with 10K miles on it. Village claims many things that don't seem to jive with the owners manual, here are a couple:

1. Village claims the oil in the TDi needs to be changed every 5K (it's synthetic) but the manual says 10K miles.
2. Village claims the timing belt needs to be changed every 40K but the manual says 100K.

Is the dealer just trying to get me to buy more service from them? I spoke to one of the service managers and she implied that she was stating VW policy.

-Eric

Offline Anthony

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Village VW Service Scam?

« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2004, 09:19:32 AM »
The timing belt seems a little on the cautious side, but it wouldn't hurt to change the oil a little more often, although I've heard of people going 10K with synthetic.  I use synthetic and change it every 5K.  I figure it's just false economy to try to stretch it more than that.  As long as your bearings last longer than the factory warranty, right?

I wouldn't call it a scam.  Any dealership makes more from the parts and service and used cars than new car sales.  Also, many times the dealership gets service bulletins that supplement the owner's manuals recommendations.  It could be something to do with that.  If they start charging you $50 for metric headlight fluid, though, you should call them on it! (everyone knows VWs run just fine with SAE headlight fluid, jeez!) :roll:

Offline Zen

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Village VW Service Scam?

« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2004, 10:09:48 AM »
I'd like to think that Village is one of the better VW dealerships around . . . after all, they are a big sponsor of Bug-A-Paluza.  But, they are a new car dealership.  Like Anthony said, there is a lot of money to be made in the service department at any dealership.  Money is the root of all evil.  Dealerships are, in my opinion, kind'a like lawyers.  There are good ones and bad ones.  Don't deal with the bad ones, and never put 100% trust in the good ones.  With the temptation of easy money out there, even the good ones can be less than honest if you never question 'em.

Ask them "So if I take it to another dealer for the service work, they will tell me the same thing?"  You might also want to contact VWoA . . . they should be able to supply you with the details of the warranty.  

When it comes to the timing belt . . . If it breaks, from what I've been told, you've wiped the engine.  I push the limit on a lot of things, but I think I would be a little on the cautious side with a TDI timing belt . . . 40,000 does sound a little overly cautious . . . but still, it's a LOT cheaper than an engine! :-k

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Village VW Service Scam?

« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2004, 12:13:57 PM »
Back in the 80`s , VW recommended that all cam belts be changed at 60,000 miles. Then came along the 16 valve GTI which started losing belts at 40,000 to 50,000 miles with horrible results.  VW recommened that the 16 valve GTI belt be replaced at 40,000 miles .The rest of the water-cools including Diesels stayed at 60,000 miles at that time. I don`t know what has happened since unless they started making better belts.
     Most of the "Ricers" say to check the belts around 90,000 miles and replace if nessesary. I think that is to far to run a cam belt on a "Interference" type clylinder head. Its not the possibilty that it will break because it can and will. Warranty or no warranty, I don`t want to be sitting in the middle of no-where with a $ 3,500+ Blown engine caused by a $20.00 rubber band.
   If you have a 8 valve gas engine, all it will do is just stop running with no damage other than than your pride. 8 valve Diesels will always "mash" up valves and possibly make toast out of the clylinder head.
   I don`t know if 40,000 miles is to soon to change the TDI belt or not, but 100,000 miles seems a bit of a gamble to take with a very,very expensive engine
   I agree with Anthony about the oil change intervals. Do it more often using factory original filters please.
   We used to be able to replace a timing for about  $150.00 back in the 70s and 80s.and made good money . I would be curious to know what the "tariff" would be today at the dealership. I think I would find out .  
   Would anybody be willing to make a guess ? I say about $500. What do you say ?
   I still mantain that VW stopped building real cars and vans in 1974. :(

Offline Kyle

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Village VW Service Scam?

« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2004, 02:17:38 PM »
The TDI being a diesel means CHANGE the oil, sythic or crude, cut back on the intervel a little and add thousands and thousands of miles and life to the best engine VW has!! On the belt issue, the TDI and all diesels are intrusive engines, so if the belt breaks, the cam stops, and the pistons slam into the valves...  then you wish that you had done the timing belt job! I think 100,000 is too long to wait. 50,000 or so is peace of mind. But it is expensive to have done, all sorts of special tools needed.... good luck.

Guest

Village VW Service Scam?

« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2004, 01:29:47 PM »
I know the warning, especially about the diesels as far as oil and timing belts go. But what I'm wondering is if Village isn't keeping their maintenance intervals overly inflated. The 2004 TDi has alot of improvements over prior TDis - the use of a tensioner on the timing belt changed the factory recommended interval from 60K to 100K (older TDis can be retrofitted with the tensioner and get the longer belt life).

I just got off the phone with Village: $564.45 to replace the timing belt and tensioner.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Village VW Service Scam?

« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2004, 04:22:56 PM »
How `bout that !!   I missed the cost  $64.45.  Far cry from the older diesel replacement. Remind me not to ever own one considering the cost of the normal maint. inspections that goes along with that. I hope your air mass meter never "conks" out. It happened to a friend of mine. $740.00.
   I wonder what kind of tensioner that makes the difference ? a constantly changing one ,or manuel adjustment/lock down type. All the inline 4 clylinder VWs had belt tensioners.

Offline vwherb

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Village VW Service Scam?

« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2004, 09:38:39 AM »
Eric, why don't you call Al Johnson VW in Dalton and ask them what the recommended intervals are?

I'm curious.

We (the club) has a real good relationship with Village Volkswagen and if there is any kind of scam being attempted, I will be willing to bet the management doesn't know about it.

Guest

Maybe scam was a little strong

« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2004, 11:34:08 AM »
Maybe the word "scam" was a little strong, but it does seem like the dealer trying to gouge people. The service person I spoke with told me that the owner's manual was wrong.

I spoke with VW Customer Care and they said the oil change interval is 10,000 miles and the timing belt interval is 100,000 miles. Just like the manual says.

And as far as changing the oil more often, why change every 5000 or 3000. Why not change the oil every week? Then it will never breakdown.

The kind of pure synthetic oil VW is requiring in this (which in only available from VW and one other source, and VW Customer Care did tell me who the other source was but I forgot), does not break down the same way as Dino oil. I'm not going to waste my money and further pollute the environment by changing the oil more than is necessary to keep the car running right without failure do to the oil. This is the same thing I did in my bus. I changed the oil every 5K because I used cheap dino oil.

BTW, my 1986 Porsche 911 required oil changes every 15,000 miles using dino oil according to the owner's manual. Changing your oil more often is like buying new tires when they are only 1/2 worn.

Skunk

Village VW Service Scam?

« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2005, 02:21:57 PM »
Just throwing in my two cents: if the timing belt breaking would cause the engine to be ruined, I think I'd go with village. No reason to be walking the razors edge.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Village VW Service Scam?

« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2005, 09:42:59 AM »
I can not belive that VW would print a manual that would give the owner the wrong info. Years ago ,if something was misprinted it was more than likely in the shop repair manuals or when they found a better way to service something, the dealership was then informed by shop bullletins mailed by the droves. I would go through 50-60 of these bulletins a month.
  If the dealer tells the car owner that the owners manual is incorrect, they should have a bulletin stating the correction. I would ask to see it.
  I don`t think VWOA has the control over the dealerships like they did at one time and frankly I don`t think they really care like they use to. I saw this trend start in the early 80s when quality control went to H&*l in a hatbox. I think that was the period when VWOA learned to do the "Texas Two-Step" around warranty questions. It took a few class action suites to get things corrected. Some never were, so the American public simply went out and bought Hondas, Nissans, Toyotas.
  VW seems to be doing great in other parts of the world market by giving the driving public the right car at the right time. Not so in the U.S. where it seems that all we get  is the high dollar,high mantinance and low selection "stuff" on top of dealers that are a little less than forthwith(?)with the customer needs. VW AG needs to get their heads out of their Butts and regain control of VWOA and the U.S. dealerships and give the U.S. public autos and van/trucks that we can afford and enjoy like our VWs in the past. "Dang It" I wish that VW would stop trying to be a Benz "Wana-Be" It ain`t going to happen !! :?

Guest

Village VW Service Scam?

« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2005, 04:22:00 PM »
Again, "scam" may be a little harsh. As far as maintenance costs go, the difference in my fuel mileage at today's fuel costs more than makes up for any increase in maintenance costs. I just finished a 12,000 mile cross-country trip. Driving 600 miles on a 14 gallon tank of fuel is a wonderful feeling! And out West, where regular unleaded hovers around $2.69 a gallon, diesel was the same or a little cheaper.  Unfortunately, around these parts, diesel some times runs the same as Super Unleaded.

But I try to always go to Midnite Oil for by Bio-fix!

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Village VW Service Scam?

« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2005, 03:44:32 PM »
Eric, Are you trying to tell us that you are really pleased with your TDI ? Sounds like a "no brainer" to me . If I did the math right, around 42mpg with a loaded down wagon ?  Who wants to buy a Hybrid that drags 500lbs of batterys around that will cost about $1500 to replace,less performance,
 a car that cost more and has less room ? What kind of cruising speeds were you driving ? Any problems ?
    Linda and I just got back from Tucson. We rented a 05 Pontiac Grand-Am with a 3.4 V6 and that dang car got 30-32 mpg driving 75-80 mph. Suprised the heck out of me. The dang thing would fly.

Guest

Village VW Service Scam?

« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2005, 12:06:51 PM »
My wife and I test drove a Honda Civic Hybrid. My colleague also owns one and I've driven it from Nashville to Chattanooga. The Civic Hybrid is much nicer than the standard Civic. It's VERY, VERY quiet and all the extra weight in the back makes it ride smoother.

However... For the same $$$ we were able to buy a much roomier Jetta TDi Wagon that uses 100+ year-old diesel technology.  We also got leather seats, sunroof, CD, etc., etc. And the car feels like a European import, not a Rice-burner.

This is basically my first new car. I'm used to 25-year-old VW buses, 200K mile Hondas and Toyotas, and even a 180K mile Porsche 911. I plan to drive this car for at least 10 years. That means I plan to drive it well into the years that I have to crack the hood and get my hands dirty. When I looked at the technology of the hybrid: two motors, complex charging system, transmission that magically manages the motors and provides breaking feedback into the charging system, etc., etc. I said "No way!"

Granted, the new "Pumpe-Duese" TDi is a bit of an engineering marvel. The injectors get the fuel up around 30K psi. And being a Direct-Injection and not CRD, the injectors are pricey (about $800 for a set of four). But that's still far less than the price of a new battery-pack for a hybrid.

The diesel is louder than the hybrid. Much louder. In fact, it's louder than a normal gasoline engine. But it's quieter than diesels were 10 years ago and accellerates like a normal car. It also cruises at 90mph with ease.

As far as cruising speeds, we were a little heavy-footed. Driving in the West - long distances and slow-changing scenery - makes you want to just get to where you're going even faster. So we were averaging between 80 and 90. Between Las Vegas and LA, traffic was cruising around 100. I was glad I wasn't in a VW Bus!

I logged my mileage and fuel purchases. I still need to calculate the final usage. Because of our speed, I doubt we got the EPA 42mpg. It was probably closer to 38mpg.

We had absolutely no problems and drove about 12,000 miles.

Offline Russ

Village VW Service Scam?

« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2005, 01:09:32 PM »
Are you using biodiesel or #2?

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