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Topic: UGh !! Will not start.  (Read 2806 times)

Offline Roadkill

  • Ooltewah Tn.
  • Joined: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 481

UGh !! Will not start.

« on: November 05, 2010, 05:59:20 PM »
Ok i have had no problem till yesterday. I started it after a couple days and then when i tried to start it the second time yesterday all it would do is crank. I tried again today and after tightening the belt ( had about 1 inch play ) and putting 2 1/2 gallons of gas in it all it still does is crant and not turn over. This is weird because i have not had any problems with it before sence i got it. Any thoughts and help will be great to see if i have covered all the possible problems.

Offline Javabirds

  • Dayton, TN
  • Joined: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 101

Re: UGh !! Will not start.

« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2010, 07:09:54 PM »
Mine has trouble when it gets below 40 deg.  I have to switch to 5W30 and then I have no problems.  Just a thought.

Offline volksnick

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Re: UGh !! Will not start.

« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2010, 09:35:31 PM »
check 12v to coil. Check that the points are opening and closing(and grounding out the coil when closed) check the rotor and cap...maybe even plugs. Eliminate the ignition system and then you can stress over fuel issues! Do you smell gas?

Offline Roadkill

  • Ooltewah Tn.
  • Joined: Nov 2007
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Re: UGh !! Will not start.

« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2010, 10:19:55 PM »
Thanks guys. This gives me a good starting point. If the sun comes out on saturday and the rain stops i will be out there. If i can't get it i will be calling somebody for help......  ;D

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: UGh !! Will not start.

« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2010, 12:07:48 AM »
Mine has trouble when it gets below 40 deg.  I have to switch to 5W30 and then I have no problems.  Just a thought.
Be careful about using 5w-30 .  Its awful light for aircool VWs.  I have used 20-50 w oil( oil of choice for many a year) for about 35+ years with no problems. Back in the old 6volt days VW said to use 20-20 in the winter and 30-30 in the summer but never anything lighter unless you lived in places like Alaska. But its your coal truck use what you want to.

Offline Javabirds

  • Dayton, TN
  • Joined: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 101

Re: UGh !! Will not start.

« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2010, 09:54:05 AM »

[/quote]Be careful about using 5w-30
[/quote]

Not to hijack your thread...  But, Sweetpea just won't start in the winter with 20W50.  I would leave it in, but it would sit all winter.  The battery checks out and the connections/ground are all great, but 20W50 is just too heavy to start below about 35 degrees.  Is there any other way other then a building a heated garage?

Offline certdubtech

  • In the Garage...
  • Joined: May 2006
  • Posts: 3199

Re: UGh !! Will not start.

« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2010, 10:20:03 AM »
Ummm....

5W30 is way to thin to be rolling in an air-cooled engine.  If your engine won't turn over below 35 degrees, i'd be finding another reason.  I lived in Cookeville years ago and had my choice of a 72 Super Beetle or a 70 Bus.  In the winter time, it would hover around the 0 degree mark, sometimes negative temps.  My junk never failed to turn over and start.  I ran 20W50 year round.  Like I said, I'd be checking for another reason it won't turn over.   ;)

And, Rob.... Remember the basics.... fuel, fire, air.  The big things to check, power at the coil, spark at the coil wire to the distributor.  Look at the points to make sure they aren't welded.  Take the air cleaner off, pull down on the carb. arm.  If it squirts fuel, then it's most likely getting gas.  Lot's of things can make it not start, but always start with the basics.   ;D

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: UGh !! Will not start.

« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2010, 11:45:29 AM »
There you have it in a nut shell. I have been told for years that about 70 % of fuel problems are electrical . Go figure  ;D ;D

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: UGh !! Will not start.

« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2010, 12:56:10 PM »
 I'll hear about this but its true. Contrary to what you were trained to do is that you never tried to start the engine with your foot mashing the clutch pedal down putting load on the throwout Bearing slows the starter motor down.  OK ?  Lets get some facts here on VWs.  The 4-speed tranny is what we call a constant mesh gear box . All gears are moving at the same time with the exception of the Rev. idler gear.  OK its 10 degrees out side . You put the car in neutral , try to start the engine and it turn so slow it won't start . Think about it. You are trying to turn 80-90 gear oil along with the cold engine oil. I know that some of you Folks ,after your engine started had  your Bug to try to creep forward in neutral with your foot off the clutch. The tranny is trying to be a torque converter. Just for the heck of it try start you engine with your foot on the pedal and see what happens. Of course this is just a sever cold weather thing and you have a less than perfect electrical system.  I know, I know , This is all B.S. but it has worked for me. My story and I'm sticking to it ;D ;D

Offline Roadkill

  • Ooltewah Tn.
  • Joined: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 481

Re: UGh !! Will not start.

« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2010, 01:46:16 PM »
Well i went out and checked. I smell gas so i am getting that. Then i checked all the wiring around the coil etc and they are all good contacts and cranked but no starting. Then all of a sudden i saw smoke comming from the distributer. I opened it up and it looked ok. I tried to crank it again and more smoke. I pulled off the cap and the black wire comming from the points was melting. So i guess i need to replace all that and see if there is anything causing it. Any more help or any one that wants to come by and help would be great because i have not done this in abou 20 years not to mention that i may not have all the tools to do it......... ;D

Offline Zen

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Re: UGh !! Will not start.

« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2010, 03:31:39 PM »
The points and condensor are easy . . . the only tool you MUST have is a screwdriver. Yeah, you "need" a feeler gauge, but the flap of the box the points came in will work if you don't have anything else.  Heck, you can "eyeball" it or just use trial and error to get it close enough to get it running . . . HOWEVER . . .

Changing or adjusting your points will 99.9999999% of the time throw your timing off.  Too much advance can melt down an air-cooled engine before you know what happened, so you MUST check/adjust your timing after you mess with the points.  Well, no, on second thought, you don't have to . . . but it's easier, quicker and cheaper than replacing pistons and heads.   ;)

Offline Roadkill

  • Ooltewah Tn.
  • Joined: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 481

Re: UGh !! Will not start.

« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2010, 04:27:02 PM »
Another update..... I just started at the basics and replaced the fuel filter ( old dirty etc ), replaced the fuel lines in the engine compartment and then pulled the line from the carb and checked to see if the fuel pump is working. The wife cranked it and gas pumped into the cup so we know that is good. So now i am ready to take it to Rick at R&M so i do not do the points etc wrong and melt the engine like Zen told me in his post.

Offline Zen

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Re: UGh !! Will not start.

« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2010, 06:52:10 PM »
I wasn't trying to scare you out of doing it yourself.  Points/Condensor are not hard.  If you want to make it really easy, just pull the distributor out and take it to the workbench (or kitchen table if your wife isn't looking  ;D ).  You gott'a set the timing when you change the points anyway, and pulling the distributor out and putting it back in doesn't take but a minute, so makie it easy on yourself.  Setting the timing is also E-Z!  But you do need a good timing light to do it.  And you GOTTA do it . . . or else . . .

With a good timing light with an advance dial, all you have to do is hook the light (alligator clips on a hot and ground, and a clamp around the #1 plug wire) then start the car.  Set the advance dial to 32 degrees.  Loosen the clamp on the distributor just enough so you can turn it, but it won't move around on its own. Rev the engine until the spark advance reaches full advance.  Move the distributor until top dead center on your pulley is sitting at the split in the case.  Lock the distributor and recheck it.

The hardest part is making sure you know which notch or indention on the pulley is top dead center.  It might not be the one you think it is.  Don't guess . . . make sure you KNOW!

Offline Roadkill

  • Ooltewah Tn.
  • Joined: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 481

Re: UGh !! Will not start.

« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2010, 08:16:36 PM »
It's not really a matter of being scared to do it. I have not done it for a good 20 years and i no longer have the tools ( timing light etc ) to do it. Those type of tools were sold about a year ago to help pay for bills after the wife was layed off from work for about 10 months. 1/2 the income causes problems. Just need to find some one that can come over to help that has the equipment or take it to R&M or spend a lot of money i do not have on tools.

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