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Topic: Type 1 Motor-Won't start  (Read 3910 times)

Offline Sfschaad

  • Chattanooga
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Type 1 Motor-Won't start

« on: April 28, 2009, 10:39:11 PM »
I know this is kind of wordy but I wanted to tell the whole story incase something I've overlooked might be causing the problem.

I went on my first long road trip last weekend since I've owned my bus (1970 VW Campmobile type 1). It was to Merlefest in NC about a 7hr drive. The reason I mention this is because on my way home one of the aluminum slinky like houses that come off the fan housing and run to the heat exchanger came loose and my motor starting getting really hot. I stopped every 1.5 hrs to gas up (gas gauge doesn’t work) and give everything a quick run through.  I noticed the hose and was able to stretch and fix it but after that I noticed it started idling a little rough and was having trouble starting. I made it home and on Monday I was able to fire it up and let it run but it took me awhile to get it started. I had to have someone crank it while I played with the throttle cable on the carb. I was off work today so I thought I would adjust the timing and make sure the points where not sticking. I've read its better to do this when the motor is cold (my John Muir Guide). I pulled the distributor cap off and the points where fine so I turned the flywheel and adjusted the distributor and now it won't start.  I pulled the gas line off the carb and fired a few times and I'm getting gas. I also pulled a spark plug wire off cranked and was getting sparks. I took of the oil air filter so I know I'm getting air.  I'm not sure what I'm missing. Does anybody have any ideas?

Offline Bugnut

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Type 1 Motor-Won't start

« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2009, 07:46:03 AM »
1.adjust the valves
2.adjust the points
3.set it to TDC and start it then adjust the timing
4. after you get that far assuming it's running adjust the carb and the choke.
Kinad got to do it in that order or you'll keep hopin around adjusting stuff.
Depending how hot it got the valves could be off you can adjust everything else all day and it wont start.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Type 1 Motor-Won't start

« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2009, 08:17:54 AM »
What was the last thing you did that killed it ?    Thats where I would start looking to see if you jerked a wire off the coil or something. How did you set the timing and did you mess  with the points ?  You have a 009 dist. so it doesn't matter if the engine is hot or cold to set the timing.
      Without looking at the van its hard to figure out what you have going on.
     If you are not sure of what you are doing you need to get some hands on help . Setting the timing wrong could get you in serious trouble with this air cool stuff
     I bet you will find something around the dist.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Type 1 Motor-Won't start

« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2009, 08:26:57 AM »
Scott mentioned the valves being off . This could be very true do to the overheating . Running around with the pipes off the fan housing is death for these engines.  If you don't how to check/adjust the valves let someone do it for you.

Offline Sfschaad

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Type 1 Motor-Won't start

« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2009, 11:06:48 AM »
I've set the timing before and the points are spaced correctly. I noticed the problem with it idling on my long drive back home. This is also when I started having trouble with getting it started. My gut "feeling" is that something happened to the motor when it got hot on my way back home. It was blistering hot and I burnt my hand on the dipstick. I was fully aware that this was BAD so I let cool down for about an hour and laid a bag of ice on the ground near the motor(since it was still about 95 degrees outside Sunday). I made sure not to cool it to fast because I didn't want anything cracking. I let the engine cool off for about an hour and reattached the hose and went on my way. I've started it twice since then and it was difficult. It sounds like its rolling over and I know I have sparks-gas-air so I think the valves could be it. It sounds kind of like a cold engine rolling over in the morning but it just won't fire. I've got some instructions from my idiots' guide about checking the valves. I'm about 1/3 accountant, 1/3 engineer, 1/3 redneck so I'm going to give it a try and see what happens. If I'm still at a lost any suggestions on who I should bring it to? Or would anybody be interested in stopping by Redbank and taking a look?

Offline Bugnut

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Type 1 Motor-Won't start

« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2009, 11:16:31 AM »
My guess is you overheated the lil monster and streched some valves. Check the valves and consider getting your heads rebuilt in the near future.

Offline Bugnut

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Type 1 Motor-Won't start

« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2009, 11:19:53 AM »
Oh I forgot change your oil...NOW! If it got that hot your oil is no longer usefull.

Offline Sfschaad

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Type 1 Motor-Won't start

« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2009, 07:57:29 AM »
Before I started adjusting the valves I tried cranking it a few times last night and I got a gunshot decimal backfire.  It was loud enough that my neighbor came over to make sure everything was okay. I let is sit about an hour and then I adjusted the valves. Cylinder one and four were both tight. Outside of that and a new valve cover which I’ll pick up in Sevierville this weekend everything looked fine. This was actually a lot simpler then I initially expected. I readjusted the points and the set the timing and still no luck.  I’ve decided to abandon ship. Any suggestions on mechanics I could take it too?  Ideally I’d like to have someone stop by and take a look (which I would pay) because I still think its something simple.  Then if its there no hope I’d have it towed to there shop-shade tree to have them fix it.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Type 1 Motor-Won't start

« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2009, 09:42:44 AM »
I think it is time to haul that thing to someone and quit beating your selve up on the forums and getting a 100 reasons why it doesn't run.  I have stopped doing house calls unless they are really close to me because I never can bring enough "stuff" to repair anything. If I don't have a clue really makes it hard to know what to bring.
       I would take it to R-M (Rick) on Highway 58 . He is closer to you and he is a member of the club and is VW savey.  He could find the problem pretty fast I think.  I would have him do a compression test to be on the safe side considering that you found tight valves and depending on the history/age of the engine anything less than 105 lb  on the low side would tell me you might be headed for trouble like dropping a valve. Not good.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Type 1 Motor-Won't start

« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2009, 09:48:40 AM »
OH , R-M phone #  (423) 305-1861.  Tell him that I sent you there.

Offline Bugnut

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Type 1 Motor-Won't start

« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2009, 11:21:14 AM »
Im with David call R&M so you can get to the bottom of it all.

Offline Sfschaad

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Type 1 Motor-Won't start

« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2009, 09:12:43 PM »
Well I gave up and took it to R&M Automotive as suggested. They checked the compression and at the number one cylinder was low. . . but as I suspected it was something simple. At some point I got my wires crossed on the distributor with the number one and two cylinder. It never fails that the simple things end up causing days of work. I appreciate everybody’s insight.

Offline Zen

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Type 1 Motor-Won't start

« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2009, 09:25:53 PM »
Quote from: "Sfschaad"
At some point I got my wires crossed on the distributor with the number one and two cylinder.


If you can get them to admit it, most folks who have worked on their own car have done the exact same thing at one time or another.   :oops:  But of course, I've never done it . . .  :wink:      
 :lol:

Offline certdubtech

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Type 1 Motor-Won't start

« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2009, 09:56:46 PM »
I just fixed a guys 2001 Mexi Beetle the other day.  It had a dead fuel pump after being stored... (3300km actually on the car).... and during the process of getting it running, he took out the plugs to clean them, and same deal.  wouldn't run right... checked the car out for him and found wires crossed, cyls. 3 and 4.  fixed that, cranked her up.... sweet purring little fuel infected motor....

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Type 1 Motor-Won't start

« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2009, 08:50:24 AM »
Quote from: "Sfschaad"
Well I gave up and took it to R&M Automotive as suggested. They checked the compression and at the number one cylinder was low. . . but as I suspected it was something simple. At some point I got my wires crossed on the distributor with the number one and two cylinder. It never fails that the simple things end up causing days of work. I appreciate everybody’s insight.
What were the compression readings ? Just curious.

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