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Topic: turns over slow after being drove  (Read 7040 times)

Offline eakanator

  • Rome, Ga
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turns over slow after being drove

« on: September 03, 2006, 05:19:02 PM »
Hi,
Thought I would re-post this since I wasn't sure of the answer and since I replaced the muffler.
70 model bug.. When cold, she cranks great runs good. After driving for a few miles and cutting volksie off. If I try to re-start, will verily turn over until she cools down a little, then cranks.. Not sure what to look for.. maybe coil, timing?  If it was the starter wouldn't it do it all the time?  checked points, etc, again starts great when cool and cold..
Thought maybe I heard a little pinging as I go down the road, but maybe my imagination, maybe tailpipes..
any ideas would be appreicated..
Ron

Offline Zen

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turns over slow after being drove

« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2006, 01:15:01 AM »
There could be other culprits, but I've had a bad starter bushing cause the problem you described.  When the engine heats up, so does the starter (it's bolted to the tranny that is bolted to the engine and metal conducts heat) . . . the metal in the rotor expands just a tad, but if it's on the verge of dragging cold, it will drag when it's hot.

Offline eakanator

  • Rome, Ga
  • Joined: Apr 2004
  • Posts: 254

turns over slow after being drove

« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2006, 09:10:05 AM »
Our local foreign parts place carries starter made by, I think he said "visteon".  

Are you familar with this brand? They don't have bosch..
may not have much choice.. foreign car parts, Autozone, advanced auto..
I know how much you love the last two places..
Thanks

Offline Ret.Bugtech

turns over slow after being drove

« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2006, 10:54:52 AM »
ALL TOGETHER NOW !!!!   Bosch-Bosch-Bosch and finally -Bosch !!!

    I have not heard of the brand you are talking about.
    Try Al Johnson VW/Volvo in Dalton.  You are looking for a "SR-15x Bosch starter rebuilt by Bosch. Don't even think of having it rebuilt by anyone else . They just don't last.  Been there,done that !

Offline eakanator

  • Rome, Ga
  • Joined: Apr 2004
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turns over slow after being drove

« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2006, 01:44:51 PM »
Thanks David,
I've read the horror stories about not using Bosch, thought maybe one of parts stores down here would carry or be able to order the starter..

Again thanks and will give Al Johnson a call.
Ron

Offline Zen

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turns over slow after being drove

« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2006, 11:24:23 PM »
I'd try changing the bushing first.  If you replace the starter, you need to install a new bushing anyway.  They usually run about a buck from a parts vendor at a VW show . . . they are probably 3 or 4 bucks at a regular parts store . . . if they carry them.  Still, it's cheaper than a starter . . . and again, you'll need to replace it when you install your new starter.  I've fixed a lot of dragging starters with a new bushing.

If you do replace the starter, listen to David.  Use Bosch.  I finally listened to him and replaced my off-brand voltage regulator with a solid state Bosch unit and all kinds of electrical problems magically went away.  Before the Bosch regulator, electrical parts (starters, generators, BATTERIES (lots of batteries), bulbs, flashers, etc., etc., etc.) were going bad right and left.

By the way, I got the regulator from Al Johnson.  They were the only place in the area that had it in stock and they were as cheap as anyone who could order it . . . cheaper than most.  It's nice to know there is still at least one VW Dealership that remembers that Volkswagen used to make a little funny looking rear-engined air-cooled car.   :wink:

Offline Ret.Bugtech

turns over slow after being drove

« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2006, 08:41:23 AM »
Ron, By all means be sure you really do need a starter motor.
    As Zen stated, replace the bushing in the bell housing . Most of the time the Bosch SR-15X will come with a bushing
    You can also ck a connector under the back seat,drivers side. a big red wire to a plastic conn. and then disappears through the pan. I have seen a lot of problems at that conn.

Offline eakanator

  • Rome, Ga
  • Joined: Apr 2004
  • Posts: 254

turns over slow after being drove

« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2006, 12:36:17 PM »
Will do..
BTW- Ed from Eds foreign parts in Gadsden was kind enough to bring a muffler to the Birmingham show last week. Called them he has the reman- Bosch starter(x-15) for $68 and the new Bosch(n-15) $109..
Ed voyles qoted $152 for the starter..
Don't think this starter has ever been replaced, may just get one or the other starters from Ed.. no one in town has the bushing..

Any advice and will look at the connections this evening.. a
Thanks
Ron

Offline eakanator

  • Rome, Ga
  • Joined: Apr 2004
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starter off

« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2006, 06:34:19 PM »
Got the starter off, bushing looks and spins good. the rest of it looks   suted (black) little burnt smell and the big bearing behind the pinion gear is hard to turn.  
Assuming it is the starter, the remanufactured Bosch($68) should be good as you said of it the new on for $118.. I can always find more things to buy for it for the difference..

Thanks
Ron

Offline Ret.Bugtech

turns over slow after being drove

« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2006, 10:36:07 PM »
Ron , What you are spining is not the bushing. The bushing is in the bellhousing where the end of the starter shaft rest. This bushing supports the shaft on one end. This is the reason the shaft feels floppy and hard to turn. I think what you are spining is the "stop retainer ring" for the bendix  drive.
    Never had any problems with remans in the past.

Offline eakanator

  • Rome, Ga
  • Joined: Apr 2004
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turns over slow after being drove

« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2006, 08:02:33 AM »
awww, I see.. so now before putting the new starter in, I'll need to dig the old bushing out of the bellhousing, insert the new one or can the new bushing go on the end of the shaft then slide the whole starter in place?

thanks and happy bithday
ron

Offline Zen

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turns over slow after being drove

« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2006, 06:46:02 PM »
The easiest way to remove the old bushing (with the engine in the car . . . it's a no-brainer with the engine out) is to run a M12 tap into it.  It will thread pretty easy through the old bushing, then bottom out on the engine case.  Keep twisting and the bushing will ride up the tap and out of the tranny.

The new one has to pressed into place.  I usually find a deep well socket that fits fairly close to the inside diameter of the bushing and has a shoulder on it that stops it.  Coat it with grease so it will "stick" to the socket (you don't want to drop it into the bellhousing!)  Use an extension on the socket, put it in place and very gently tap it in to get it started.  Once I'm sure it's started, I remove the socket and VERY GENTLY tap it on into place with a wooden hammer handle.  The goal is to get it flush with starter side of the tranny housing without buggering up the inside diameter of the bushing.

OK, I'll admit, this is a home-grown way of removing/installing the bushing.  I'm sure there are a couple of special tools that make this job much easier . . . but if I did own them, I wouldn't be able to find them.

Offline eakanator

  • Rome, Ga
  • Joined: Apr 2004
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turns over slow after being drove

« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2006, 10:30:09 AM »
When the guys down at Ed's mentioned about pulling the engine to remove the bushing last night, all I could think of "holy moly macaroni"..
Thanks for the alternative tip.  
May try to grease the bushing first to see what happens, then revert back to trying to replace the bushing Zen style..

Thanks
Ron

Offline Ret.Bugtech

turns over slow after being drove

« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2006, 10:56:55 AM »
Ron, Jump on the Zen method.  Works great. The only difference is I have the installation Driver. The tap trick works a bunch better than the bushing puller you are supposed to used. The bushing is a tad tender so go easy.

Offline eakanator

  • Rome, Ga
  • Joined: Apr 2004
  • Posts: 254

turns over slow after being drove

« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2006, 11:31:07 AM »
Well, I guess, no guts, no glory..besides what's the worse that can happen..  Wait hold those thoughts...thanks

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