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Topic: The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!  (Read 9326 times)

Offline ASBug

  • Varnel, Ga
  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 3032

The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!

« on: October 26, 2008, 10:06:30 PM »
Welcome to the Kermy Qustions Thread.  I will be posting LOTSA questions here.  If you have any responses, Please helpa fella out!!!

Statistics: 1976 Westfalia Campmobile Deluxe.  1970cc type 4 engine with (I believe) all the FI stuff there, just VERY ROTTEN HOSES.
Mileage 101,800, Refab engine put in at 88,000.  

Questions:
#1) Any one have any idea why I cannot open the rear hatch?
-I have the correct key, and I can feel the push button doing something, but the latch will not release.  
#2)  How does one remove the niffty wood panel (1/8th inch thick) with out splitting it.  Those little black clips are in tight and I feel that I am about to destroy the wood if I keep pushing.
#3) Is it possible to pull the gas tank with the engine in? It sure looks like one could do that if he removed all the breather stuff.
#4) does anyone have an extra push button for a westy cabinet handle?
I am missing one.
#5) is it normal for the radio to work even if the switch is off?  It kinda makes sence, but I am just curious.
#6)Can just any proane place fill my tank?


Updates - All electrical is working with the exception of the horn.  I have been running the fridge on the plug in and have a little repair to do to the wire posts at the secondary battery to test the battery charger.  Stove works, there was propane in the tank from 6 years ago....
That is just about it.
Thanks fo the help.  Want to get this thing going for some camping!!!
KC
 :D

Offline Russ

The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!

« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 01:18:18 PM »
I can't answer them all, but here's what I know:

3) I've heard it's possible to pull the tank with the engine in, but I don't know. It might be more work and frustration than just dropping the engine. And if you're replacing all the fuel lines anyways, dropping the engine might be a good idea.

4) You can by them new from GoWesty: http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=2434

5) That's probably how the PO wired it up. There's no true "accessory" position in the ignition switch, so when the key is on, so's your coil. There's a good chance you could burn up your points with the key on, so a lot of people just wire up their radio to an always-on 12V source, so they can run it without the key in.

The horn is tricky, it's not wired up like you'd expect. It's wired up hot all the time, and when you press the button it connects the ground, completing the circuit. The steering column itself is part of the circuit, and at the bottom there's a tab that the horn wire connects to. Most of the time this wire comes loose or the tab breaks off.

Offline ASBug

  • Varnel, Ga
  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 3032

The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!

« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2008, 11:49:41 AM »
Thanks Russ,

More Questions:
7)  Is there a wireing Diagram for the Westfalia part of my camper?

I had 3 red wires that were loose: 1) Large guage red with white stripe that goes to the data port near the main battery. 2) a plain red line that ran to the relay that is mounted high on the side of the engine bay door near the auxillary battery. 3) A large Guage red with 4 small Dark Red or Brown lines that goes along the bottom of the engine bay and disappears under the filter mount.   Any way I hooked these upt to the hot wire and presto, nothing happened.  They looked like they hadn't been replaced when the PO replaced the battery cables
I also have a cluster of sm guage brown wires, some with spost and some with out that appear to go no where.  There is also a sm guage white wire comming out of the the same wire loom cover.  This comes out just under the data port connector on the main battery side of the engine bay.  They appear not to plug onto the central ground that is there, as there are only 2 posts and they are occupied.

8) If I pull the Fuel pump is it just a matter of wireing it up to a battery 12v to see if it'll pump.  Just want to make sure that I don't fry it.  

9) Is there a way to check the Brain before I sink $150 into fuel hoses?

This is what I am seeing:
-$350 for new carbie set up. VS. $150 for correct Hose/clamps/filter + (if bad) Brain $100'ish (on the samba I have found a 1978..) + used fuel pump $80 off the samba.  So if the fuel pump and brain are dead, I would dead on just using the carbie set up....
- I know that this will not make some happy, but I am just researching here.

Thanks for any info that you may have.
KC :D

Offline ASBug

  • Varnel, Ga
  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 3032

The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!

« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2008, 12:17:03 PM »
That #8 face was totally accidental......
8 )  instead of 8)
wow, i did it again!!!
KC

Offline Ret.Bugtech

The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!

« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2008, 12:19:10 PM »
I would question any used electrical stuff sold online.  You need the wiring diagram for your year . VW changed little stuff every year.  I know what I would do.
       I had to work on "stuff" like this everyday when I was at the dealership. Not anymore Thank God. :roll:  :roll:

Offline ASBug

  • Varnel, Ga
  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 3032

The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!

« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2008, 12:21:07 PM »
Secondary battery is working the fridge, and I am able to check it's charge from the pannel and able to charge it with the plug.
The relay that connects the secondary to the primary battery is pretty rusty at the terminals, I replaced 3 of the female wire ends, if it is bad is it available.  I assume that it is to let the secondary battery charge off the altenator.  I'll try to get a part # off the relay.  It has like 5 wires on the bottom of it and is where the secondary battery grounds to the frame.
Thanks.
KC

Offline ASBug

  • Varnel, Ga
  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 3032

The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!

« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2008, 12:32:19 PM »
Quote from: "Ret.Bugtech"
 I know what I would do. :roll:  :roll:

And what would you do?
I am leaning toward the carbie.  
I have a 1974 1600 DP type 1 that I had contemplated slamming in there, but this is an automatic and I am not sure that it'll bolt up.....
And the 2L that is in it has like 14 K miles on it since being professionally rebuilt (although that was 18 yrs ago....)
Any way, I am leaning toward a carb.
I can still be swayed, but I am really wanting this thing to run sooner rather than later.
Thanks,
Kc :D

Offline ASBug

  • Varnel, Ga
  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 3032

The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!

« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2008, 12:35:32 PM »
I have downloaded the wireing diagram for a 1976 transporter bus from the net and have plotted it out on a "D" sized drawing that is 2' X 3' and it has NOTHING about the wires that I was questioning.... Thant makes me think that these are all Westy specific.
Thanks,
KC :D

Offline Russ

The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!

« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2008, 01:12:08 PM »
Quote from: "ASBug"

8) If I pull the Fuel pump is it just a matter of wireing it up to a battery 12v to see if it'll pump.  Just want to make sure that I don't fry it.  


If it's out of the bus, you can indeed hook it up to 12V and you should hear it kick on. If it's in the bus, with the key in the on position, take the top of the AFM off and move the arm away from the metal tab on the side. You should also hear it kick on.

Quote from: "ASBug"

9) Is there a way to check the Brain before I sink $150 into fuel hoses?


I wouldn't worry about the brain. They're solid state electronics, and there's not even any real test procedures for them. Even the Bentley says suspect the ECU is bad only after testing every other component. I have an extra anyways, they're always overpriced on The Samba.

Quote from: "ASBug"

This is what I am seeing:
-$350 for new carbie set up. VS. $150 for correct Hose/clamps/filter + (if bad) Brain $100'ish (on the samba I have found a 1978..) + used fuel pump $80 off the samba.  So if the fuel pump and brain are dead, I would dead on just using the carbie set up....
- I know that this will not make some happy, but I am just researching here.


I also have a couple of extra fuel pumps, they need to be tested first. I also have a brand new German one as a backup as well. I think the double relay would fail before the fuel pump or the ECU anyway.

Go with whatever you're more comfortable with, for me that's FI. If you go with a carb setup, consider duals. It'll perform a lot better than a single center mounted deal.

Offline Russ

The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!

« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2008, 01:15:30 PM »
I don't know much about Westfalia wiring. Mine's a standard camper, so I don't have a fridge or dual battery to worry about. Here's some wiring diagrams I found:
http://www.type2.com/dakhlia/CIRCUITS/westwiring_us1.gif
http://www.type2.com/dakhlia/CIRCUITS/westwiring_us2.gif

I also found this homemade one that says it's for a '79. Don't know how similar it is to your '76 though.

Offline ASBug

  • Varnel, Ga
  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 3032

The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!

« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2008, 05:21:59 PM »
WOW Russ!
U R Da Man!
I think that the prints you have referenced will be the answers to the questions that I have posted.

I am very interested in checking my fuel pump tommorow.

"If it's in the bus, with the key in the on position, take the top of the AFM off and move the arm away from the metal tab on the side. You should also hear it kick on. "

Question #10) what the heck is an AFM?
Thanks.
I will probably sink a Ben and a half into the fuel system next Monday.
If my pump is bad, will you sell me one of yours?
Thanks.
KC

Offline Russ

The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!

« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2008, 05:33:32 PM »
AFM is the air flow meter. It's on top of the air filter to the top and right of the engine, it's the big black plastic box. The AFM draws in measured quantities of air into the intake and uses it as one of its primary parameters for the fuel injection. Inside, a little door is held shut with a spring. As air is drawn in, it forces the door open, which is connected to a little arm that pushes a contact across a resistive track. The ECU can tell how much air is going in by sending a fixed voltage to the AFM and measuring how many ohms (resistance) it gets back. You should be able to pry the plastic cover off the top with your fingers.

The reason this test works is because after you start the engine, the double relay kicks in and powers the fuel pump as long as the door inside the AFM is open. Once it shuts, it contacts the strip and cuts off power to the pump, to prevent gas from pumping in the event the engine stalls if you're in a wreck, for instance. Of course, this also assumes your double relay is good too.



Offline ASBug

  • Varnel, Ga
  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 3032

The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!

« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2008, 05:49:12 PM »
I do not want to repete myself,
But URDAMAN!
I saw that little plastic lid on the side of the flter housing, then I saw where the PO had siliconed it down.  So pulling it off is going to be a problem...
I am going to pull the FP off tommorow and check it.  

11) Where is the Double relay that you mentioned?

I am numbering these questions because I am trying to get it running in 20 questions or less!!!!

Kinda like the 6 steps to Kevin Bacon game from a few years back....
20 steps to a running bus....Doesn't have the same ring does it...
Thanks,
Kc

Offline Russ

The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!

« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2008, 06:24:16 PM »
The double relay is in the left hand side of the engine compartment, mounted to the firewall. It is, quite literally, two relays together in one metal (or plastic) housing. One side connects to the bus's electrical system and the other connects to the FI wiring harness. When you engage the starter motor, one side of the relay closes and sends power to the fuel pump. Once the engine is started and the key is moved back to the running position, the other relay kicks in and keeps the supply of power going to the fuel pump, as long as the door inside the AFM is open.

There are simple test procedures with a VOM you can do on the double relay. Sometimes they just get "stuck" and a good whack with a screwdriver handle will wake them up. You can still get brand new Bosch double relays today, I think they're around $80. If yours is plastic, it's likely been replaced and if it's metal, it's likely the original.

Offline ASBug

  • Varnel, Ga
  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 3032

The Kermy Questions Thread - and updates, Lotsa Fun!

« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2008, 04:51:32 PM »
OK,
I have ordered the correct 7mm hose and have removed the fuel pump.  I cleaned all the varnish off of the OUTSIDE of the fuelpump.  It must have had a drippy leak on the inlet side.  The pump would click, and then nothing.  I sprayed and cleaned and cleaned and sprayed the pump and then put a hose with about a cup of car cleaner on the inlet side.  I pressurized the hose and hit the juice.  Same thing, click and then nothing.  After about 4 hits of the juice, it sputtered, primmed and pumped.  I pumped 2 gallons from one can to another and no hickups.  I think that I have ressurected the fuel pump.  Once I get all the hoses connected, and the pump installed, I'm going to change the oil and filter and attempt to fire it up.....
I am hoping that it'll just purr..
We'll see.
KC

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