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Topic: Re: Ignition Timing & yes I have read the archives  (Read 3720 times)

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Re: Ignition Timing & yes I have read the archives

« on: May 05, 2006, 06:07:15 PM »
I purchased a 72 beetle, came with an old carb. and 009 dist.  
Purchased new 34pict Pierburg Carb. and new svda Bruck dist.($Yikes)
Problem... book called for 5*ATDC on the dvda...009 I have no idea.
Anyway, place that sold me dist. said to time at 7.5btdc.  Ok, I made some marks on the pully and proceeded.  However, it seems like the engine is way late on timing.  Sluggish under full throttle and hesitation if floorboarded under way.  Does not have accelleration of 009..no way near the accel.  Using timing light.
Anyone know what the timing should be for this Bruck dist.

People, get ready I may need help securing parts and advice, because I am going to try to tear this car apart, and cure the rust and make it presentatable.  It needs a lot of work, as it shakes above 40mph, but is a blast to drive.  Have bought several books so far.

Thanks for your advice in advance.

David (New member to forum)


UPdate:  Have checked the accl. pump output...OK
             Checked best I could for air leaks
             One thing I forgot to state.  The preheat pipes on this engine were cut and blocked off.  I do not know if this makes any difference or not.

Waiting for some knowledgeable people out there to respond.

Offline copperjewel

  • Joined: Sep 2002
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Re: Ignition Timing & yes I have read the archives

« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2006, 09:28:59 PM »
:shock: Could this be the beginning of a rival thread to "Help with a slow starter"??? Stay tuned!!!   8)  :lol: Someone notify "Godfather"!!

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: Ignition Timing & yes I have read the archives

« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2006, 12:47:49 AM »
David, Is this a stock 1600 duel port. What was wrong with your original carb and dist ?   It is common knowledge that 009 dist does
  not work well with the 34mm carb. They hesitate like crazy on accel.
  Does your timing light have a degree advance knob on the back ?  If not get one. Its a must.  Sears has a good one for the money.
  How many marks does you pulley have on it ?  Tell me where they are in relation to each other. You may have a dimple on the outside rim of the pulley. That one counts also.
  Let me know what you have and we will go from there.
  Remember the # 32 degrees. Write it on the wall. This problem is common and not hard to deal with. 8)

Offline Zen

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Re: Ignition Timing & yes I have read the archives

« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2006, 01:21:09 AM »
When your engine reaches cruising speed and everything levels out you want your plugs firing at 32 degrees before top dead center.  Every distributor has a different amount of advance.  Every distributor has a different advance curve.  A SVDA distributor has the best of both worlds as it adjust the advance with vacuum (depends on engine load) and centrifical weights (depends on engine speed).  A 009 is advanced only by centrifical force.  Long story made short -- there are a whole lot of varibles that are built into the distributor and you have no control over.  The kicker is you only have one adjustment you can make to the distributor.  When you get to full speed (and full advance) you want to be firing at 32 degrees before top dead center.  If it fires later than that, you loose power, burn more gas and run hotter.  If it fires sooner, you'll have lots of extra power, run REALLY, REALLY HOT and literaly burn holes in the tops of your pistons in very short order.

So, you should set your timing under full advance to 32 degrees before top dead center . . . let the idle advance fall where ever it falls.  Sure, chances are the timing at idle won't be ideal.  But sitting a red light idleing, your engine can take the abuse of fireing 5 or 10 degrees too soon.  If your cruising down the interstate at 70 MPH and firing 5 or 10 degrees too soon you'll be walking REAL SOON.

Here's a step by step:

1)  Adjust your points to .016"

2)  Hook up a timing light and Rev the engine until the advance stops.  Adjust the distributor under full advance so that you're firing at 32 Degrees Before Top Dead Center and lock it down.

3)  Short of changing the distributor, there's nothing else you can do timing-wise to make it run better.  If you still have problems, look elsewhere.

Offline Zen

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Re: Ignition Timing & yes I have read the archives

« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2006, 01:24:52 AM »
What are you doing up so late Godfather?  I must of started typing 'bout the time you posted.   8)

Offline copperjewel

  • Joined: Sep 2002
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Re: Ignition Timing & yes I have read the archives

« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2006, 03:08:05 AM »
:lol:  :lol:  :lol: Here we go!!!!!!!!! Hang On!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im taking notes. I need the knowledge. DO NOT SAY IT HERB!!!  :twisted:

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: Ignition Timing & yes I have read the archives

« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2006, 11:04:01 AM »
Zen is on the mark with how to set the timing, but we still need to know which notch on the pulley is being used. I know of at least 5 different pulleys with 5 degree ATDC  to 10 degree BTDC notches. You cannot get it dead on until you know what you are working with. I doubt that you could find 50% of the dist. that would read the same amount of advance.
   A lot of people set their timing at a idle and go no further,so they have no clue what their total advance is. Their dist might go to 25 Degrees to 45 Degrees which is not good unless you like to burn holes in pistons.
   Your guys told you to set your timing at 7.5 degrees at a idle. So what is your total advance ? No clue right ?  Which mark on your pulley did you use ? I have seen dist. idle on 5° to 10°, top out to 32° I have yet to seen anybody idle to Disney World, so do we really care where it idles as long as the engine doesn't idle at 30° ? ( bad dist?)
    Bottom line is , Get a timing light with a degree advance knob unless you have a after-market pulley with the degree marks all around.
     More than likely you will always have the hesitation problem with the
centrifugal and 34mm carb comination. Why you ask?
      Look at it this way. The 34mm carb was the largest carb VW used on the Bug as far I know.  When you dump the throttle you open a big hole, vacumn goes up in the intake,but nothing happens for a split second because until the revs start to creep in, the centrifugal dist doesn't advance soon enough. cough ! splut !
      If you have a vacumn advance dist, The second you dump the throttle the vacumn unit on your dist. detects the difference in the  vacumn and is already on the move advancing your timing. No more cough ,splut.
      I'm assuming that your carb and engine are up to "snuff"
  What I'm trying to say here is sell your expensive dist. to your Buddy and get a good vacumn controled dist. or put a 30-31 carb on your engine. The 30-31 carb will run good with that new dist. you have,but its like putting a 2 barrel carb on a Corvette.
      I'm not saying that your new dist is bad, only that you are using it in the wrong application. I have seen this problem way to many times over the years.
      Let me know about your pulley notches. I hope I haven't confused everything for you. We are here to help if we can.    
 :thumbs-up:

Guest

Re: Ignition Timing & yes I have read the archives

« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2006, 09:21:33 PM »
I hope this works as I am new to forums.

New Carb and Dist. as stated in original post.  Old carb was original and 358,000miles on it.  Car came with paper work.
Stock rebuilt engine, not by me.  61,000mi. on rebuild.
Preheat pipes cut and blocked off by previous owner.
Pully is stock, one notch on pully to left of dimple.  No other marks.
Old fashion 30 year old Zeon(?) timing light.

I am still thinking vacuum leak, but all I did was change carb and dist.  See original post.  Car was running fine, but geting lousy milage, as previous owner had drilled out main jet to compensate for 009.  It still hesitated at pull off though.

See brand of Dist. and carb. in origianalpost.  Are these brand names good replacement parts?

Thanks to all for the advice so far.  I am still pulling hair and testing patience.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: Ignition Timing & yes I have read the archives

« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2006, 11:33:27 PM »
OK. The dimple is T.D.C. or zero degrees. file a mark across to the rear rim of the pulley. If you don't want to buy a new timing light, make a notch on the pulley 2 inchs to the right of the dimple.( Real close to 32 degrees) Rev. and hold engine about 1500 rpm and move dist until your new notch lines up with split in case.
    You still mlght have the "stumble" until you get a vacumn unit dist. Timing sets the same way

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: Ignition Timing & yes I have read the archives

« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2006, 12:08:35 AM »
O yeah, The notch on the left is 5° ATDC or 5° retard. Do not use this mark with you having a vintage timing light.

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