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Topic: Questions about VW's?  (Read 6582 times)

franktiregod

Questions about VW's?

« on: October 26, 2004, 12:31:12 PM »
Hello
I am new here and I have a lot of questions. I am a car guy but I have always been a Mopar man.

My son's first car was a 73 Beetle. I tried to talk him out of it. I told him he didnt want a VW, etc.  That was UNTIL I drove the car. I fell in love with it. It was FUN.

Anyhow, we didnt really do much with it and eventually sold it to buy another Mopar. He and I both have been wanting another one and plan to do some serious stuff with it.

As I said, my experience with VW is VERY limited so I am going to ask a lot of silly questions. Please bear with me. I didnt learn Mopars overnight and I wont learn VW either.

We dont currently have a VW but I am working a deal on one right now.
I want a 53-57 Oval window.

Here is what I want to do.
Chopped top (maybe. I am not solid on this idea yet)
Lowered front
Wide fiberglass fenders
Custom interior
Sound system under trunk (hood)
Custom gauges
Suicide doors

Here are my questions. Again some may be dumb.

1. I know there are several different size engines for these cars. Which is best for performance? Will they all interchange?

2. How about suspension modifications? Are there any must dos or good tricks?

3. I know there are lots of good parts distributors. Give me the website or number for your favorite.

4. As I said, I prefer a 53-57 with the oval window but that is only because I like the window. Is there any other year that woudl be a better choice due to parts availablility, updated suspension, etc?

5. I have read where people say this is a 65 sitting on a 57 pan,etc.
I didnt know the bodies would disconnect form the pan until I saw pictures.
Why would you want an older pan? What is the differnces in the pans?
Is one year better than others?
I am very intersted in this so any info you could give will be news to me.

6. Does anyone know of a magazine,etc that has done suicide doors where I can get the info to do it?

Thanks in advance for your help. I truly appreciate it.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Questions about VW's?

« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2004, 03:50:49 PM »
Well !!   I would start out with lots of research. Pick up some issues of Hot VW`s , VW Trends etc. to find out what you want to do. They have lots ads for "goodies" for sale. Next, I would start hanging out with VW guys, Like the Scenic Volks Folks .  Come to the meetings and your questions can be addressed face to face with a lot of well informed folks . A lot of us have "been there,done that" and we may be able help keep you out of some of the pitfalls that you WILL ecounter along the way. We love to help the new guy/gal to get headed in the right direction before they get over his/her heads. Our VWs may not be as big or mean as a big fire breathing Hemi but, they can be just as complicated and ornery when they want to be. If I tried to answer every question you have posted today,I would be here until midnight. One thing I am sure of, you will get some answers and you will have to digest all of it. Just be calm and all will be seen. Read,read and read and ask a few questions at a time so we can keep up with you.  Welcome to VW  The greatest little car ever built. :thumbs-up:

franktiregod

Questions about VW's?

« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2004, 04:47:01 PM »
Thanks!! I am definitely reading everything I can find. I want to have a plan of attack before I attack. lol

Offline Bugz

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Oval

« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2004, 05:09:13 PM »
Well I'm not as knowledgeable as David is  by any stretch but I would offer something to consider though I personally wouldn't recommend it (I'm a purist). If you are looking for an oval but feel the price is too high you can always buy a standard beetle and then buy an oval window and have it grafted into the standard body. I know there is someone down in Chickamauga that has done this with a split window.
As far as reading material I strongly recommend John Muir's book How To Keep Your VW Alive - A Manual of Step by Step Procedures For The Compleat Idiot. It's not only easy to read but it's also very entertaining and full of practical solutions to VW problems.

Offline vwherb

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Questions about VW's?

« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2004, 07:09:13 PM »
I'm not a purist either but PLEASE don't chop the top of an oval or split window bug. Like Bugz said, you can graft an oval into a later body. You can get the looks you're after with a later model car and have better suspension and drive train.

As for engines.................the spectrum is wide..............as for a powerful little car, we have one club member who is an old time drag racer. Last November, he ran 9 dead heat races against Fords, Chevy's and Mopars and after WINNING all 9 races, no one else would pull up to the line against his little 4 cylinder Bug.  This is fact, not fiction.

Like Bugz said, come around, hang out and the only dumb question is the one that ISN'T asked. :thumbs-up:

Offline Zen

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Questions about VW's?

« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2004, 08:01:32 PM »
An air-cooled Beetle is the epitome of interchangeability.  With very little modification it should be possible to bolt a 1939 Nazi Germany KDFwagen body onto a 2004 Final Edition Mexican built pan (They were built in 2003, but the Final Editions were sold as a 2004).  With a little grinding on the inside of the bell housing, a 1974 engine will bolt up to a 1951 transaxle.  The doors off of a 68 Beetle will bolt up to a 75 Super Beetle.  Beetles constantly changed over the years, but in most cases the changes were “backwards compatible.”  Many, many, of the “upgrades” the factory made would bolt on to older Beetles with no modification whatsoever.  Other improvements could be added to older cars, but might require changing other parts as well.  Very few were a cut and dry change that couldn’t be done to older cars . . . such as changing from a Link Pin/King Pin front suspension to ball joints.  Those two front beams bolt to the frame head, but they front of the frame head is different and they won’t interchange.  Of course, if you don’t mind doing a little cutting and welding, you can put a ball joint frame head on a link pin car and then bolt up a ball joint beam.  The only “next to impossible” feat would be to put a Super Beetle strut front suspension on a standard Beetle.  But then, with some cutting a welding, even that would be possible . . . not practical, but possible.

I grew up on GM cars.  I always thought they were fantastic for interchangeable parts . . . but GM doesn’t even come close.  If you’ve been a “Mopar” guy, you are going to be amazed at VW’s interchangeability.

If you want to go with irreversible customizations like chopping the top and your planning on building a high performance engine, go with something from the 70s.  You get better suspension (Ball Joints up front, IRS in the rear), and cheaper, more readily available aftermarket performance parts . . . plus you don’t hack up an all too rare already early Beetle.  If you do go with an oval window and want looks and performance, consider going with a “Resto-Custom.”  It’s the best of both worlds.  Great looks and performance, but the car “could” be put back to original specs without an unreasonable amount of effort.  Check out http://www.bkcruizers.com/ for some of the best examples of Resto-customs in the southeast.

And like everyone else said . . . you're not going to ask a "silly" question.  If you've got a question and don't ask it . . . now that's "silly!"

Come hang out with us sometime . . . but only if you are prepared to become addicted.   :badgrin:

 8)

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Questions about VW's?

« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2004, 09:05:28 AM »
There you go !!    I told you that you would get some advice. It doesn`t take long to get this bunch fired up.
    I know this is down the road a bit, but I wouldn`t be to concerned about engines right now.  It seems that a lot of people want to learn how to build BIG engines first thing right out of the box when they don`t know how to even adjust brakes on a VW. First things first. Learn all you can about the basics of the VW, what you can or cannot do, what works or not. There is plenty of infomation in this club and other places for you to explore . Ask lots of questions.  I started a long,long time ago with VW and Im still asking questions,still getting answers. Let the games begin. We are here to help. :thumbs-up:

franktiregod

Questions about VW's?

« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2004, 11:25:41 AM »
I appreciate the answers. Keep them coming.

I should also point out that I would never destroy a rare car that could be restored.  Like I said, I am a car guy and I want the good ones saved too.

I have found an oval window car and it is ROUGH. If I dont get it, I am sure the next stop for it will be the crusher. It is stripped of anything useful and the lower parts of the body have rust. I have not seen it in person but I was told and the pics I saw show that the lower body is rusted and the floors are shot.

Since I wanted something to hack on anyhow, this seems like a good starting point. I can replace the rust and the rest of the stuff would have been replaced anyhow.

As far as engine performance. I really dont care to have the fastest around. I just dont want to get out push up hills. lol
This car has no engine so I would have to decide what engine I want to go with if I buy this car.

I apreciate the comment about the ball joint suspension. That is the kind of stuff you usually learn the hard way. With Mopar, the 72 and earlier A bodies used a smaller ball joint than the 73 up. That is good stuff to know.

I will let you know if I get this car. I am trying to schedule to look at it this weekend.

Thanks again to everyone!!!

Oh and I ordered the book from ebay yesterday. Thanks for the heads up on that.

franktiregod

Questions about VW's?

« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2004, 03:45:30 PM »
OK now I have another question.

If I bought this car, would I be better off if I bought a later model "pan" with good floorboards and ball joint suspension?

Would that put me ahead as far as my plans or would I be just as well with any pan?

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Questions about VW's?

« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2004, 05:15:25 PM »
You might, Check out the "parts and accessories" for sale in this forum. Its a`63 pan with the older link pin front axle. nothing wrong with them. Seems like a lot of stuff there. It might be a head start for you if the price is right.

Offline Zen

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Questions about VW's?

« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2004, 10:49:18 PM »
Here's some "food for thought" . . . just keep in mind I'm not a good cook!

Seems to me the off-road crowd actually prefer the older link pin front beam.  Keep in mind that it's basically a mid-1930's design.  Roads improved over the years and ball joints, a more modern design, replaced the link pins.  I've never driven a link pin car as a daily driver but I'm guessing the ball joints offer improve the handling on good roads but sacrifice a little ruggedness.  The Super Beetles have a strut front suspension . . . an even more modern design.  When everything is correct on a Super it's the best handling Beetle you can get.  But, you TOTALLY sacrifice ruggedness.  Rough roads will destroy a Super's front end in short order.  I've seen Super's with the front part of the body visably warped from one trip off road.  Of the three front suspension choices out there, there isn't a good, better, and best . . . it's all a matter of how and where you intend to drive.

In the rear, you have two choices - swing axles or IRS.  IRS is Independant Rear Suspension . . . which actually, a swing axle is too . . . but let's not go there yet.  The swing axle has an axle inside of a tube that runs out the spring plate.  Because there is a fixed distance between the transaxle housing and the spring plate, the wheel moves through the suspension travel in an ark.  The IRS has a stub axle running in bearings at the end of the spring plate.  The stub axle is connected to the tranny by a pair of drive axles with CV joints on each end.  The wheel moves through the suspension travel almost straight up and down.  It's kind'a like this:

The wheels on a swing axle car move like this:   (   )

The wheels on an IRS move like this:    l    l

IRS has obvious handling advantages on good smooth roads and in fast, sharp turns . . . but swing axles are tough.  VW put IRS in all 1969 and up Beetles built for the US market, but the swing axle was the suspension of choice in the Mexican Beetles right up until the end of production last year.  Again, one isn't better than the other.  It depends on what you intend to do with it.

On your front suspensions . . . 1965 and back were link pin.  1966 and up were ball joints.  Without welding on a new frame head the two won't interchange.  A Super Beetle is a breed unto its self.  It has a totally different frame head and body actally holds the top of the struts in place.  Supers were built from 1971-1979.  All convertibles during that time were Supers.  In 71 and 72 they had a flat dash and a flat windshield like a regular Beetle, but from 73 up they had a larger curved windshield and a more "modern looking" dash.  I believe that Super Sedan production ended in 75 (76-79 Supers were all convertibles).  75 and later Supers had rack and pinion steering.

Although anything is possible if you don't mind cutting, welding, and fabricating . . . keep it simple.  Determine what front suspension you want and let that dictate what "pan" you use.  I think it's pretty easy to put a swing axle setup on an IRS pan . . . and with a little cutting and welding a swing axle pan can be converted to IRS.  It's not an everyday thing, but it's been done many, many times before.  As for the actual floors . . . pan halfs are not too hard to replace.  Don't pass up a good deal on a car just because the floors are rusted.  The bottom of the body (heater channels) are a different story.  They are not impossible to replace, but it's not a job for just anyone.

I'm not trying to overwhlem you with information or make it seem like I know it all.  I'm still relitively new to all this myself . . . I bought my first VW a little less than 10 years ago.   But I made a real big mistake in the begining and I try to help others avoid making my mistake.  I had no clue what I wanted, what I wanted to do with it, what the difference between a Beetle and Super Beetle was, etc., etc., etc. . . . then one day I walked into the back yard and tried to figure out what I was doing with 20 junk VWs out there.  Having even a slight clue what you want BEFORE you start dragging cars home will go a long way towards keeping your back yard uncluttered!  But the neat thing is they are small . . . with a little "creative" parking, you would be supprised how many you can cram into a few square feet.   8)

franktiregod

Questions about VW's?

« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2004, 09:02:06 AM »
Quote
Having even a slight clue what you want BEFORE you start dragging cars home will go a long way towards keeping your back yard uncluttered!

Amen to that! lol
That is why I was getting myself familiar with interchangeable parts, etc before I got into something. I like to have a plan and know where I am heading then I would know how to make it happen. (Just like mapping out a trip)

I appreciate you telling me all that. I know it takes time to type that much stuff but I really do appreciate it and it is good info. I am going to print it and add it to my million notes I already have.

Again, I appreciate all the info.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Questions about VW's?

« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2004, 09:10:52 AM »
Zen , Im glad you said all of that and you are dead on.  I like link/king pin for its strength. These front axles can be "slap" worn out and they will still drive down the road very well. Half the time you will not even feel it. Its only when you look at your front tires that you say whoops. Can`t say that about a ball joint axle. If a ball joint goes south ,you will know it at the next speed hump/pot hole when the wheel and spindle hop out of the trailing/ball joint and you are laying on the ground like a dead moose. Not any fun at 60mph either. I have seen the results on the back of a rollback. Its a good idea to take a look at your ball joints once in awhile and check for excessive play. If you let one little thing get loose on a Super Beetle strut front end for any lenght of time,it will shake its self apart. If you want your bug to ride like a Town Car, I suggest you buy a Town Car. I will say this, They are all good front axles when you take proper care of them. Like Zen said: Depends on what you are building, Off roader, street rod, stocker on what type of front axle set up would work for you and still be safe.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Questions about VW's?

« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2004, 09:22:58 AM »
Oh Yea !! Another plus for the Link/King pin set up is as the Link pins wear over the years, You can adjust them to remove excessive play. Not even an option on Ball joint or Super Beetles.

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