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Topic: Premature Troubleshooting  (Read 3630 times)

Offline Interstellar Overdrive

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Premature Troubleshooting

« on: July 09, 2010, 02:24:16 AM »
Sooo.... I'm thinking about trading my Buick Century to a friend who has a 74 Transporter, the thing is - the Buick runs, but the Transporter doesn't. I have seen it personally, and he's not mechanically inclined, but has taken pretty decent care of it mechanically through the local shop (it has looks only a mother could love though). I jumpered its' battery to the Buick and attempted to start it to see what it would do, and naturally it did nothing but turn over. Now the factors here are:

1. He says it ran one day and then cut out on him the next, doesn't know what happened. Sounds like an aircooled, huh?  ::)
2. It turns over at normal speed, no warning lights.
3. I smell gas in the carbs, there's gas in the filter.

It turns over, but doesn't make any attempt to hit. I was rather unprepared, so I didn't pull the plug and check for spark, but my thoughts are maybe bad points, old coil, old plugs, old plug wires, and old gas (though that shouldn't have mattered when it quit in him). I just wanted to see if anyone with more experience than myself had any thoughts to throw in about what it could be. I'm hoping this will be something I can drag to my friends' shop, fix it, and drive away after an electrical system refresh.

It's all bone stock, FYI.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 03:43:04 AM by Interstellar Overdrive »

Offline certdubtech

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Re: Premature Troubleshooting

« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2010, 08:12:49 AM »
74 Transporter?  Not running all of a sudden?  Could be something cheap and simple... could be something very expensive and complicated.  I don't know that i would trade any runner for a non-runner, especially a late model bus.

Then again, late model buses go from runner to non-runner quite frequently anyhoo, so......

 ;D

Offline Interstellar Overdrive

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Re: Premature Troubleshooting

« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2010, 08:38:03 AM »
My thoughts exactly, but my Buick goes from running to non-running just as much as any VW Bus I've ever known. What would really help me decide though is maybe to know what the expensive problems could be, and how I could determine whether or not it will be expensive and/or a pain in my ass more than your average VW. Perhaps you could list a couple of ideas?

I have the following tools to use troubleshooting:

Compression checker
Voltage tester
Eyes
Hands
Ears

Offline certdubtech

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Re: Premature Troubleshooting

« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2010, 09:13:06 AM »
Like you said, check easy stuff.... maybe the points are welded,  bad ignition coil, fuel pump may have taken a dump....

As far as what's expensive, anything internal engine related.  Type 4 engines are notorious for valve seats failing, coming out of the heads.... the bottom ends are nearly bullet proof, but when they do break, they are very large sums of money.

Check power to the coil, then work outward, ignition, then fuel... then on to a compression sheck, then we can go from there.  also, do a quick check of the valve clearances, that might show if you have a problem with a head.


Offline Interstellar Overdrive

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Re: Premature Troubleshooting

« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2010, 09:20:12 AM »
I don't know how to check valve clearances... :'(

Hence my thread I posted about wanting to apprentice under an experienced mechanic. Did you read it?

Offline certdubtech

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Re: Premature Troubleshooting

« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2010, 09:26:32 AM »
Best bet to figure out valve clearances, get a book like John Muir's idiots guide to keeping your VW alive.  It has a really nice explanation on how to do it.

I apprenticed years ago under a couple of local now legendary status air-cooled mechanics, and was able to obtain a wealth of knowledge doing so.

I work for an independent shop now, so i don't do the apprentice thing with others, but am more than willing to offer advice, guidance as needed.  

And, when i am home working on a resto or body work for someone, i reserve the right to exhibit a very foul mouth when i smash my thumb or cut myself, so i like to be alone in those moments. ;D

« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 09:32:23 AM by certdubtech »

Offline Interstellar Overdrive

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Re: Premature Troubleshooting

« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2010, 09:35:03 AM »
Guess I'm on the right track then, already bought the book online, just don't have it yet.

Would those guys still be around and up for a new apprentice maybe?

Also, just for myself, how much money do you make? I'm trying to decide on what I should do with my life, and want to do something I enjoy, but not at the expense on having a wallet full of moths.  :D
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 09:37:40 AM by Interstellar Overdrive »

Offline certdubtech

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Re: Premature Troubleshooting

« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2010, 09:45:45 AM »
They are still around, but elusive... (a.k.a.retired) and i would let them speak up themselves...

As far as what i make, i don't like to give specifics, but now, i make a comfortable wage.  This is after years of starving under a flat rate system, poor work environments, numerous injuries, lots of pain and anguish... I like to say i am 35 going on 76.... was it worth it?  I wish i had finished my masters degree and become a teacher.  At the time, i was making more than my then-wife who had been teaching for the county school system for several years, so i stayed with turning wrenches.  The biggest thing i would stress is that if you love cars, and enjoy them as a hobby, sometimes the luster is lost after working on them 50-60 hours a week.  I took my beetle apart in the fall of 1998.  And it's still apart.   :(

I never have time for my own stuff, just everyone else's projects.

Offline Interstellar Overdrive

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Re: Premature Troubleshooting

« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2010, 09:53:06 AM »
Well, even if I don't make a living out of it, I want to know enough to work on my own projects by myself. It frustrates me to no end when I'm looking at a Bus and know if I buy it I don't have the know how to fix it and/or diagnose it correctly. If it says anything on my ability to soak things in and retain them, I started messing with computers at 11 or 12 with no knowledge or anyone to teach me, and now I'm the same way as you but with computer projects. The only problem though, is that a motor is so much more complicated... and if you mess it up, it's so much more expensive. Even if it wasn't apprenticing at a shop, even if it was at someone's house in their garage helping them work on their projects in exchange for the knowledge I would gain, I would be more than happy to.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: Premature Troubleshooting

« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2010, 02:55:52 PM »
Well your first mistake ,not being a mechanic is looking at a Van from that period. If you are dead set on a van go find a '71 back all fixed/restored. Sure they all are expensive . Pay the price and ride for awhile. You don't have a clue what you will spend on a type-4 powered van. I won't repeat what Rick said about the engine but its all true and then some.
     I would think you would have a hard time finding a apprentice job . There is not a good shop around here that is VW only.  You would find yourself changing oil/lube on more Ford and Chevys than you would be working on VW's.
    I'm one of those retired ones but I feel the same way that Rick does .  I still do Type -1 engines and trannys doing the day by myself  but you have to bring those to me without the car. Sorry NO type- 4  engines period. Sorry if I sound a bit short with you.

Offline Zen

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Re: Premature Troubleshooting

« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2010, 09:04:44 PM »
I'd like to throw my 2 cent's worth in here . . . which today is probably worth nothing, but it's the thought that counts, right?

Nobody was ever born knowing how to be a mechanic.  If you get a type 4 powered bay window bus and can't afford to pay someone else to wrench on it, you will do one of two different things.  Go broke, get frustrated and get rid of it, or learn to be a decent mechanic . . . maybe not a professional mechanic that can make a living doing it, but good enough to most of your own work.  If push comes to shove, you can always get rid of the type 4 and drop a less expensive, easier to work on, (but less powerfull) type 1 in it.

One other thought . . . if you are depending on it to get you from point A to point B on a daily basis, don't do it.  Make it easy on yourself and don't try to learn to mechanic on your daily transportation . . . there will be times you screw up and you'll be without wheels for a few days . . . or weeks . . . or longer.

Like Ret.Bugtech said, you'll be hard pressed to find an apprentice job, but you can still be an apprentice of sorts.  Start by reading everything you can find on the subject at hand . . . diagnose what you can by yourself, but before you touch anything, ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS!

Offline Interstellar Overdrive

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Re: Premature Troubleshooting

« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2010, 11:26:40 PM »
Well, I'll admit that you're right completely. I just feel so compelled to buy one whenever I see one, and I'd be glad to know about as many types as possible. I appreciate the advice, and will take your two cents, seeing as that's more than I've got anyways.  ::)

Hopefully I'll have a Bus soon enough, whenever the right time comes.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: Premature Troubleshooting

« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2010, 11:46:00 AM »
And if you do find something that you just have to have, make sure It will run and let someone look at it for you.  We have quite a few vans in the club and the owners just love them. The thing is they just have the one Van to deal with and didn't have to  work on them everyday for 40 years like some of us did. They just drive to club events with it . All the rest of the time they are sporting around in the family Lexis or Ford so they will last a little longer and give them time to save up some more money to fix things as they break and they will break. I lost my thrill of owning a Van after the '71 model. I did own two Vans, A '64 23 window and '69 Bus that had 70,000 miles on it. I paid $ 110.00 for it and drove it home and had it painted , new tires and drove it everyday for   5 years. Those days are long gone now . To bad :'(

Offline Smelly_Cat

Re: Premature Troubleshooting

« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2010, 08:17:18 AM »
Go for it.  Even if the bus never works they may great playhouses and storage sheds. 

Offline 74loaf

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Re: Premature Troubleshooting

« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2010, 10:22:30 AM »
I have a 74' that I bought non-running (basically) and now it drives pretty well... Paid $1,000 for it a little over 2 years ago... I've learned quite a bit on troubleshooting these type 4's from other members in the club... Kinda have to if you wanna keep these type 4's running without taking your paycheck with em... Its definitely a love/hate relationship...

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