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Topic: Next job - brakes!  (Read 3003 times)

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Next job - brakes!

« on: July 29, 2005, 04:27:37 PM »
I've always been a bit worried about the brakes on the Ghia so took it upon myself to fix them.  And fixed them I did - good and proper.  Car hardly stops at all now!

Anyway here's the scenario.  The handbrake has never worked properly so I started on the back brakes.  Jacked the back up and the wheel on one side would not turn at all.  Managed to pry off the drum to find the handbrake cable completely rusted in place and the adjusters rusted tight.  I removed the cable (will replace tomorrow!), replaced the springs, adjusters and shoes and adjusted it so the shoes were just out enough not to drag.  Put the wheel back on and went for a test drive.

The brake pedal now goes right to the floor before doing any braking and hardly does anything at the bottom.  Assuming it was because I hadn't done the other side, I took the other back wheel off, removed the cable, replaced everything and adjusted it again.  Braking is now better but still not perfect and the brake pedal still goes right down to the floor.

So the questions....

1) Looks like the back brakes were mainly being held on by the old cables.  Removing the cables means that the back wheels hardly brake at all even though I've adjusted properly (I hope!).  The Ghia has a dual braking system so even if there's something wrong at the back, how come the fronts don't appear to work?

2) Is there any way of adjusting the front disk brakes?

3) I definately don't have any brake fluid leaks so is a master cylinder replacement on the cards? Anything else I can check beforehand?

Offline Zen

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Next job - brakes!

« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2005, 12:58:54 AM »
Adjust the brakes out until they lock down and back them off just a little.  You probably don't have them tight enough.  If you haven't worked on old VW brakes before, trust me, you will think they TOO tight way before you get them tight enough.

The Godfather can probably shed some light on the inner workings of the master cylinder . . . It might be possible that the front brake half of the circuit has gone bad and the back half is still working and you just have the rear brake shoes too far from the drum.  The disc brakes are "self adjusting" if everything is working right.

Can you pump the brakes up and get a good firm pedal?  If not, and you don't see fluid leaking anywhere, I'd go ahead and replace the master cylinder.  If you have to keep adding fluid, but can't find any leaks, it's probably leaking out the back side of the master cylinder and into the hollow area where the master cylinder bolts on.

If you are not sure of the age or condition of the flexible hoses, I'd recommend you go ahead and replace them.  I've had one bust under pressure before.  I've also seen lots of them go bad from the inside . . . they looked good from the outside, but had swollen up inside and started to act like a check valve . . . the fluid will get through them under the pressure you create at the master cylinder, but the little springs that pull the shoes back can't generate enough pressure to move the fluid backwards through the hose . . . so the brakes lock against the drums and won't back off.

Guest

Next job - brakes!

« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2005, 10:57:59 AM »
Thanks for the advice.  I re-adjusted the back brakes and replaced the handbrake cables and now they're working just fine, but the front brakes are still not effective.

Brake lines look fine and there are no leaks (brake fluid reservoir is full) so looks like a master cylinder job :( Is it an easy job to replace this?

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Next job - brakes!

« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2005, 11:45:58 AM »
Matt, You might try to bleed the front brakes, starting with the rt. front. Check the free play between pedal push rod and the master cly. You need about 1/8 to 1/4 inch  of free play. The rod is adjustable. Since you have replaced the pans ,this adjustment could have changed do to removing the pedal cluster. If you have no pressure at the front wheels while bleeding or very little , you could be losing the back stage of the master cly. No free play between the push rod and master cly can also give you this symptom along with bad hoses(ck Zen post) thin brake pads, or worse stuck front calipers. (Old Ghias are noted for this) Check all of this and let me know.

Guest

Next job - brakes!

« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2005, 10:27:29 AM »
OK I've just replaced the master cylinder.  Braking feels much better but I'm going to replace the front pads anyway as they're quite low.  Next job now is to replce the brake pedal return spring as the pedal isn't coming back up all the way.  How do I do this? Which bits of the pedal cluster do I have to remove?

Offline Anthony

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Next job - brakes!

« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2005, 11:21:12 AM »
Along the same lines, I'm going to have to disassemble a pedal cluster, too, so any general tips would be appreciated!

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Next job - brakes!

« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2005, 01:11:15 PM »
To replace the spring, the cluster has to be removed(like doing a clutch cable job) Make sure the brake pedal is free on the shaft.Just slide the spring over the cluster housing. Make sure the short end of the new spring is on the bottom facing toward the seat. After installing the cluster, you have to use a screwdriver or something to hook the spring on the brake pedal. Confused yet ?

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