Forums

Topic: head tempature?  (Read 8675 times)

Offline swagginjello

  • cleveland, tn
  • Joined: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 170
    • facebook...

head tempature?

« on: December 28, 2007, 05:05:08 PM »
im running a type one motor in my van and after the #3 cylinder melt down i have mounted a CHT gauge on it(well worth that 100 bucks) the motor is a duel port 1641(thats probly half the problem right there) runnin 40-45 it seems to hold around 350, hit near 55 and it 400, some how get the beast up to 60( downhill with a tailwind) and it hits close to 440. just wanted to know what kinda tempetures are ok before damage. also right now im running a 10w30 synthetic, come warmer weather it'll get 20w50

Offline Ret.Bugtech

head tempature?

« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2007, 07:33:55 PM »
OK !   Where is your Ing. timing set ?     32 degrees is the max advance at about 1800 - 2000 rpm.   Do you have all  the  engine tin in place? You need some kind of tin to seal off the top half of the engine from the bottom half seeing that you are running a type-1 where a type-4 use to be. To put it simply ,when you open the engine lid and look down you don't want to see the ground
      I would say that you are running a bit high on temps.  A 1641 I belive is 88mm jugs and they will overheat  with ease even on a Bug.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

head tempature?

« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2007, 07:38:05 PM »
O Yeah , Put 20-50 in that engine .  10-30  is to light until you get down to about 5-10 degrees and it stays there .

Offline swagginjello

  • cleveland, tn
  • Joined: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 170
    • facebook...

head tempature?

« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2007, 11:35:26 AM »
im not sure exactly where it timing is at right now, but i had Joe at Tri state set it for me a few months ago after the melt down. as for the engine tin... its kinda a patch work job, but i brought home some left over duct work metal left over from a job at my work, so im going to try and seal it up a little better.  id say it's probly in need of a full rebuild, and an enlargement 1776 most likly.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

head tempature?

« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2007, 02:59:39 PM »
Good  !   You need to seal EVERY opening you can . NO DUCT TAPE. When that stuff comes off it will end up in the fan .Not Good.
     The ing. timing is very,very crictical and HAS to "dead on" or you will melt it down again.  32 degrees total advance no exception. You really can not set the timing correctly unless you have a timing light with a degree advance knob on it.  Setting the timing at a idle is no indication that it will be acurate at higher RPMs.  Even the pulleys are marked  differently, so you need to know which mark is absolute "0". I haven't seen to many Dist. that had the same advance curve.  32 is the magic # at 1800-2000 RPM. Who cares where it idles unless the  unit is stuck or bad. You don't idle around town or on the Freeway.
     The 1776 is ,I belive is 90mm jugs over the stock 69mm stroke,. The question here is ,do you want to drive this Bus or work on it all the time ?Remember you are driving a van and it will only go so fast. The more mods you add, the hotter it will run and the more RPMs/ speed you can  get out of it will cost you big time in the long run. Put a tach on it and drive it down the hy-way at about 65-75 MPH. The RPMs will make the
 hair on your neck stand up.
      If the van was mine , it would get a "Bone Stock"  blueprinted 1600 Single Port. Yep! I said Single Port
      You need to drive these vans about 55-60 MPH to make them live,but its your "Coal Truck" and your pocket book. Do what you want to.
      All this info comes from 45+ years of experience of trying to convince folks that they are not driving a Porche  911 :roll:  :roll:

Gehackt

head tempature?

« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2007, 11:26:02 PM »
Quote from: "Ret.Bugtech"
All this info comes from 45+ years of experience of trying to convince folks that they are not driving a Porche  911 :roll:  :roll:

Well some....................................................

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Offline swagginjello

  • cleveland, tn
  • Joined: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 170
    • facebook...

head tempature?

« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2007, 10:42:56 PM »
thanks for your input.  the oil change is coming soon, and ill make sure to check all my heads while im under it, and ill have to pick up a timing light some where soon. any input on a reliable relitivly inexpensive one?  i do know my TDC is marked right on the engine it was checked during to lowest possible cost rebuild after the melt down. i have drivin it on the highway a few time, but i try to avoid it at all cost, i have my maps so i can hunt out the back roads and try and keep it under 50.  as for the 1776 a little bit of power would be nice riding around town. probly stock cam, and carb. nothing extreme, plus its gotta be better than a 1641... can we say melt down prone.

anyways, thanks again.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

head tempature?

« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2008, 11:47:14 AM »
I'm not sure what you mean by the TDC being marked on the case. Timing marks are on the pulley and you use the center line of the case to set . How many marks do you have on your pulley ?
      Sears has those timing lights and they work just fine. They have them on sale once in a while. I paid about $60 for mine after my Snap-On died of old age. Snap-On light was about $150 to replace.
     I don't think you will get as much power as you think with just going to 1776 with everything else staying stock plus the expence of having the case and heads machined out big enough to install the 90mm jugs. Not cheap. If you are going to go to the expence of doing that you might as well build a BIG engine which I really don't recommend for a bus . Don't try to tell me that you will drive it 55MPH with all that power you will have.  Like me and a lot of others Dudes , if its back there you are going to drive the "snot' out of the poor thing :lol:  :lol: and if you are real lucky you might get 8000-10,000 miles out of it before it spreads itselve all over the Highway. $$$$    I,m not trying to be a Smart-Ass but I have been there,done that :roll:

Offline Zen

  • Show Chairman
  • Club Member
  • LaFayette, GA
  • Joined: Dec 2001
  • Posts: 8842
  • Liked: 2 times

head tempature?

« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2008, 01:56:36 PM »
Speaking of been there, done that . . . and still doing it . . .   A dual port has a little more top end horsepower, but the single port has more bottom end torque.  It may not be enough to notice in a bug, but it's very noticeable in a bus.  It doesn't matter how fast you can run if you can't get the thing rolling.   :wink:  I've been running type 1 engines in my 73 bus for years . . . I keep the bus loaded down and I "drive the 'snot' out of it."  A stock type 1 will probably never push a bus down the road for 100,000 miles, but I've gotten over 25,000 out of one built from mostly half worn out used parts.  I don't hesitate to take in on long trips on the interstate either . . . I've been as far south as Tampa, FL and as far north as Effingham, IL and for the most part, I keep up with traffic.  I've done both of those trips mulitple times.  Last time I went to Effingham, I even pulled a small trailer . . . and hauled back a bus full of woodworking equipment I bought while I was there.

My recommendation is bone stock.  1600 Single port.  Keep the oil changed and valves adjusted.  Keep the points and timing set . . . or put in electronic ignition, set it and forget it.  Drive the snot out of it as long as it last then do it again.  And like Bugtech said, run 20w50.  It might not be for everyone, but it works for me.   :lol:

Offline swagginjello

  • cleveland, tn
  • Joined: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 170
    • facebook...

head tempature?

« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2008, 03:25:31 PM »
i didnt mean TDC marked on the case, but on the pully.  as for marks on the pully there are a few that have been made over the years.  i do see why a single port would be better with the lower end torque. it is hard to get a bus moving with an uphill grade in the way.

Offline Russ

head tempature?

« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2008, 04:10:08 PM »
Hey, just out of curiosity, which CHT gauge did you get? For $100 did it come with the sender too? Where on your dash did you mount the gauge?

I know I want to put one in my bus, just fishing for opinions first.

Offline swagginjello

  • cleveland, tn
  • Joined: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 170
    • facebook...

head tempature?

« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2008, 06:33:48 PM »
http://www.busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=310901

i belive this is the same thing i have, i cant be 100% sure though. originaly i was worried about the wire not being long ehough to reach, but it was long enough to reach. right now i have it mounted under the dash, but it needs to me moved. i tend to hit it with my hand when shifting into first. i think when i get around to it ill end up mounting it on top of the dash so i can see it easier, probly in a triple gauge cluster, so i can add oil temp, and volts.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

head tempature?

« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2008, 08:31:45 AM »
Swag,  Pulley marks you say that were made over time were more than likely factory marks.  VW had pulleys that were marked with 1 to 5 notches depending on the year . You need to know what they mean to correctly set you timing. I would make a bet that only about 1 out of 10 VW mech. know what they all mean.  These old aircool engines more than likely have been rebuilt more than once and stuff gets swaped around so you don't know what you ended up with. I have this info and if you could post a pic of your pulley showing the marks clearly I can tell what they are.

Offline swagginjello

  • cleveland, tn
  • Joined: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 170
    • facebook...

head tempature?

« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2008, 06:33:38 PM »
it took 20 minutes in the dark but i have a few pictures. make what you can out of them. looks like 3 marks, plus a random paint mark on the face of the pully. two notches, and a dimple are the 3 marks





thanks for your help[/img]

Offline Ret.Bugtech

head tempature?

« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2008, 08:56:37 AM »
Hey !  You did good.  These are all factory marks. From left to right in the pics ,the left notch is  5 degrees retarded.  The "dimple" on the outer edge of the pulley is 0 degrees (white smudge). The right notch is 5 degrees advanced.  Forget about the notch to the left. This notch was used to set the timing when the dist. had a double pull vacumn unit (early emission days. '68-'69)   Some people set the timing at a ldle on the 5 degree advance notch(extreme right) but they didn't have a clue to what the total advance ended up being if they had a dist. that was a little spasic (most of them).  
        This is what I do. Take a 3 cornered file and file a notch straight across the dimple to the inner rim. This will give you a absolute "0" mark.Paint it red or something so you can find it when the engine is running at a idle.  If you have a timing light with a advance knob, set the knob on 32 degrees, rev the engine to about 1800-2000 RPM and move your dist, until your NEW "0" mark lines up with the split in the case. Lock her down and you are done.
         If you have a timing light that doesn't have a advance knob, you can do the Poor Man's trick. From the middle of the NEW notch you filed, take a tape measure and measure EXACTLY 2" to the right (clockwise)on the back rim and make a mark. You will be real close to 32 degrees. Rev the engine and move the dist. to that mark.
         With all that said and done, if the marks don't move at all, you more than likely have a locked up dist. Fix or replace it.
         I hope I didn't confuse you with all this but its not Rocket Science.

There was an error while liking
Liking...

About Us

Chattanooga's oldest and largest club for air-cooled and water-cooled Volkswagens, since 1998. Join Us

Follow Us

© 1998-2025 Scenic City Volks Folks