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Topic: Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.  (Read 7188 times)

Offline ASBug

  • Varnel, Ga
  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 3032

Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.

« on: August 31, 2012, 08:54:43 AM »
Hi all,
The beetle has developed a pretty sever vacuum leak this past weekend.  It hardly idles when warmed up and will not idle at all when cold and the choke disengages.
This combined with the fact that I have no heat at all on the engine leads me to wanting to pull the engine and install heater boxes, and a heated shroud on the car.
I have pulled numerous bus engines by myself. (No brainer with an early bay).
But I have never pulled an engine out of a beetle.  I have had a friend of mine do that whenever I have needed to do this.
I am feeling Froggy and with the long weekend I am planning on starting early on Saturday and pull the engine out.
Plan of action is to:
-Disconnect battery
-Pull the electrical off the engine (alternator, coil, oil sensor, probably something else I forgot).(I have alot of those little number stickers used by electricians to make sure I get it all back together...)
-Take off rear facing tin the one with the heater holes in it.
-Disconnect the valve cover breather hoses.
-unbolt the 4 bolts / nuts  in the back.
-Lower and pull the engine away from the trans, (using a motorcycle jack I have).
I am concerned about the manner of the pulling away from the input shaft v.s. the limited space between the rear apron and the exhaust.
I have a 4 into 1 collector with a stinger.
I can pull off the stinger easily and already have a new gasket for it.
Any one ever been able to successfully do this with the extractor still in place?
I have it wrapped in heat insulation and removing it will be a pain.

While off I am planning to:
-Change out the cooling dog house to a late 1600 one I have.
-Change out the rear tin to a german one with all the holes.
-Install the Heat exchangers I have (brand new).
-Trial the Dual Kadrons I bought, if I do not like them I'll go with a stock set up.
-OR -Install a new VW of Mexico heavy DP intake I have (Huge preheat tubes), current intake has no preheat.
-Retorque all the engine case bolts and head bolts.
-Pull the heads to verify what displacement the engine is.
-If the engine is a larger displacement, I'll shoot towards the kadrons and leave the extractor / stinger in place.
-If the engine is a stocker, I'll probably go with a 30/31 and a new stock muffler / pea shooters I have for it.

My main concern is the pulling of the engine, any thoughts or advice will be appreciated.
KC

« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 09:01:10 AM by ASBug »

Offline travisyoung

Re: Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.

« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2012, 10:02:27 AM »
It should come out with the stinger on,  beetles are really not to bad,  I think the room is about the same as the thing and I can have it out in about 30

Offline attack chicken

  • Ooltewah
  • Joined: May 2007
  • Posts: 421

Re: Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.

« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2012, 10:08:21 AM »
Sounds pretty good so far,you will need to clamp off or plug the fuel line too, it will drain the tank otherwise. Throttle cable will need to be removed as well, when you take it off the little barrel clamp that mounts it to the carb should be pulled and put in a safe place otherwise it will fall into the black hole that eats all little important items and will never be seen again ;D  The distance from the apron will decide if the header/stinger needs to be removed, also if the jack you are using will work with it installed.  I like to leave as much exhaust on as I can just for use as a handle. Also if your engine to body seal is not in good shape change it before the engine goes back in. No matter what you do you would be doing yourself a favor if you ground hop the engine between each repair or change..If you put the kads on, start it on the ground and see if they work, pull the fan shoud and replace it, start it on the ground and make sure the oil cooler didn't develope a leak..this keeps you from pulling the engine right after you put it in to fix something that was missed on the build. Anytime the engine is out is a good time to check/change the clutch, if it wasn't perfect when it was in the car now is the time to replace it. You will need a clutch alignment tool if you pull the pressure plate, don't even bother trying to put it together without one, also if you do replace the pilot bearing, there is a front and back, the side that faces out/the transmission will be thicker walled, this is often the side that has writing on it, you will need to look and see which wall is the thickest. It's like that to prevent damage from the input shaft on install. :vw:

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.

« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2012, 11:38:25 AM »
KC, Didn't you tell me you were using a 6V starter on your 12V converted '63 and the clutch was slipping a little  ?  If so that tells me you may a 180mm flywheel and clutch or just a oil leak .If you are thinking about a new clutch-----  A 180mm clutch has a hard time dealing with 1600 + engines. You may have to live with it . The bell housing on your car  may or may not accept a 12V 200mm flywheel (larger dia and more teeth) due to a few spots in the bell housing that would need to be "ground" off for clearance plus a 12V starter and a special starter bushing. The only 200mm 6V flywheel, that is if you want to keep your 6V starter motor, that I know of comes from a mid-year 63 thru 64 Type -2's  and hard to find plus they are "shim" type and not "rubber O ring" I tried getting getting a 180mm pressure plate Beef-up at Felton's Clutch on Rossvile Blvd.  It worked great except it would really test a clutch cable. I have ground on a lot of bell  housing's . Lets find out what you have before you do anything. A word to the wise, Two things I would add to do while the engine is out: Replace the crankshaft main seal and the cooler seals even if they are NOT leaking right now. Its a long way back in there if they start leaking the next week after all the other work was done

Offline attack chicken

  • Ooltewah
  • Joined: May 2007
  • Posts: 421

Re: Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.

« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2012, 12:36:05 PM »
 The only 200mm 6V flywheel, that is if you want to keep your 6V starter motor, that I know of comes from a mid-year 63 thru 64 Type -2's  and hard to find plus they are "shim" type and not "rubber O ring"

I have one of these that I won't be using for myself. 6volt 200mm.  Let me know if you want to go this route ;D

Offline ASBug

  • Varnel, Ga
  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 3032

Re: Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.

« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2012, 01:46:29 PM »
Will let you know Rick.
i have a GOOOD run stand with tank etc. that I'll have the engine on.
I'll have to get a 6V starter or pull the one off the bug, I have an autostick starter on it now.
I am thinking that the 12V bell housing run stand that I have will not accept a 6v starter because of the bushing differences.
I am planning on keeping the 6V starter and clutch set up for now in that I have sourced a 1968 swing axle that has been rebuilt and has had "work" done to it to accept a higher HP engine.
When I close the deal on it I'll just have my friend put it in for me and replace the rear main seal, flywheel, clutch, etc while he has it out.
I am wanting to try to start the engine prior to putting it in the car so as to retorque the head bolts etc.
I want to know the Kadrons are working well before I put the engine back in.

About how high are you guys jacking up the rear of the car to get it out?
I do not have a lift and will be on my back loosening and pulling it out.
I may work on the rear apron of this car while the engine is out so I can make it removable.

@Rick - I do need to replace the heat seal and I have a brand new one, thanks for the remind!

@ everyone - Thanks for the help over the past 5 years, this is one of the nicest forums I have ever been on ( I have been on Chevy truck, Ford Mustang, Several Hondas, and even several tractor forums).
This is by far the nicest bunch of "fellas" out there.
KC
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 01:48:37 PM by ASBug »

Offline attack chicken

  • Ooltewah
  • Joined: May 2007
  • Posts: 421

Re: Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.

« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2012, 02:54:52 PM »
You can use the conversion bushing that David mentioned and just leave it in the stand if your 12v starter is a autostick, they don't use a bushing. That way you can hit 6 and 12volt with nothing other than swapping starters.  Did you get the Kads new or did they come from Eike? I only ask cause I know they were having trouble getting them to run well. 
  This is the BEST forum I have ever been part of, there is very little to no bickering online and everyone really is helpful and there is a wealth of knowledge that can't be found on larger forums. There isn't too many places you can get advice from a FACTORY trained aircooled tech that actually made a living repairing what he was trained on!  Thats a shout out to you David! ;D  Lots of folks get training and never use it, or they use it for a few months and realize it's hard work then bail. Great forum and club! :scvf:

Offline ASBug

  • Varnel, Ga
  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 3032

Re: Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.

« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2012, 03:08:08 PM »
That way you can hit 6 and 12volt with nothing other than swapping starters.  Did you get the Kads new or did they come from Eike? I only ask cause I know they were having trouble getting them to run well.   
That was what I was thinking about with the stand, just use a bushing for the stand and then use the astick starter for the 12V stuff.
Problem is that I will be unable to get a bushing for the stand between now and tommorow.  Lamar in Dalton isn't open tomorrow, So I may just have to install the heavy duty Mexican DP intake I have with the 30/31... (I am running an 019 Disto, Screamer and Blue).
The Kadrons are the ones from Eike, and they look like someone has gone through them with a new kit etc.  I have downloaded the Kaddie shack's instructions for setting them up and will try to put them on to test if the starter can be worked out.
I have a 12V set up with a brand new clutch to install in the Ghia if I choose to go T1 back in it, but I want to keep that and put it in the '68 trans or the ghia.
If I go non T1 in the ghia, I plan on a KE clutch and pressure plate.
KC

Offline attack chicken

  • Ooltewah
  • Joined: May 2007
  • Posts: 421

Re: Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.

« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2012, 04:15:59 PM »
The Kadrons are the ones from Eike, and they look like someone has gone through them with a new kit etc.
Yeah, I think Eike and his buddy built them, I gave them a gallon of carb cleaner for them, from what I remember he couldn't get them to run below 2000 RPM, never heard if they got em squared away or just took em off.
Mainly has the bushing in stock, but that's in Chattanooga. They are open tomorrow though.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.

« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2012, 04:18:08 PM »
KC, I know for a fact that the late '65 tranny along with the '66(both short axles) wide-5 will accept
 the 200mm flywheel with no mods. '67 Bug came with the 200mm flywheel but has the long axles , wide-5 and could pose a problem of the tires rubbing on the fender('66 back) at top of the arch. '67 rear fenders are one year only. '68 is no problem but are 4 lug long axle. You can swap the short axles/tubes and brakes to a '68 or buy 2 rear 67 fenders.  The fenders will fit. Just the wheel arch opening is larger. No big deal .

Offline volksnick

  • Secretary
  • Club Member
  • Chattanooga
  • Joined: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 4304

Re: Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.

« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2012, 08:49:47 PM »
@ everyone - Thanks for the help over the past 5 years, this is one of the nicest forums I have ever been on ( I have been on Chevy truck, Ford Mustang, Several Hondas, and even several tractor forums).
This is by far the nicest bunch of "fellas" out there.
KC

I have to agree. I am members of a few forums and I like this one and planetisuzoo.com as well. They both have good communities and while this one is vey much local, the other one has tons of meet ups and everyone kind of knows each other. I think that's the key to a good forum- realizing the people on the other side. I like thesamba, but that baywindow forum has sooo many pissed off first time posters from the regulars bashing them. I like that everyone here has a relaxed attitude and we can get sidetracked!

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.

« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2012, 11:56:53 AM »
Come on Nick, We don't get sidetracked.  Just think of it as furthering our education. Our newer members need to know how this Crazy bunch operates. Then they won't be confused when something totally weird/different comes down the line on the best forum around.

Offline volksnick

  • Secretary
  • Club Member
  • Chattanooga
  • Joined: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 4304

Re: Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.

« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2012, 03:13:42 PM »
We just got sidetracked  ;D.

I have had trouble getting the generator pulley hung up on the grove that holds the engine seal. I sometimes remove the pulley to make it easier. Getting the angles right can be a problem because you do have to tilt the motor a little to get it in a bug. I think the dual carbs won't clear for when you put it back in- seems I've heard people say that they have to come off first.

You mentioned 4 nuts/bolts holding it in- where is the 4th? I thought there was only 3?

Offline attack chicken

  • Ooltewah
  • Joined: May 2007
  • Posts: 421

Re: Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.

« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2012, 08:58:32 PM »
I think the dual carbs won't clear for when you put it back in- seems I've heard people say that they have to come off first.

You probably want to take em off even if they did clear, wouldn't take much to break one trying to install the engine. A removable rear apron helps but you still end up pulling just about the same amount of stuff off to get the engine out, just makes it way easier to pull the stuff off.

Offline ASBug

  • Varnel, Ga
  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 3032

Re: Engine Pull, '63 beetle - need advice.

« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2012, 10:57:11 PM »
Didn't happen today. :(
I built the 1600 that was already on the engine run stand as a short block 1st.
That thing had been this way for over 2 years and it was just Screaming "fix me".
So I did.
Thought I had ordered every thing I needed to put it together, but was missing sparky wires and a coil.
Also need the peashooter seals, but other than that all is well.
Will break it in next weekend and then retorque every thing and put it in the ghia so I can move it around.
Then I'll get back to this engine.
I got one of those Empi (yeah, I know), oil pumps with the spin on oil filter, I like the idea of this.  Is is going to be more trouble than it's worh, it was $75 and I hate wasting monies when it is truly a waste. Alvin in Daltoin will take it back, just have to see if I have a dished or flat cam. The one I have is for a dished cam.
Any feedback?
KC

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