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Topic: Clutch return spring pressure question  (Read 8183 times)

Offline Got Bug ?

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Clutch return spring pressure question

« on: August 27, 2013, 07:45:32 PM »
Today my '63 Beetle's clutch pedal seems to have lost some spring tension along the way. I pressed the clutch pedal and it went down to the floor much easier than usual. My first thought was a broken cable, oh no!
But, the clutch was working and was not slipping. It just seems like the force needed to depress the clutch lever was much lighter. I drive this car almost daily and the clutch has never been so light. The freeplay seems to have increased, too, but that might me just me.
My first thought was the cable. Second is that the adjustment somehow slipped and loosened, but I have been driving it 5-6 days a week for about a year or so, and this seems unlikely.
Anybody have experience with this?
Of course I plan to crawl under and check the adjustment.
Thanks!

Offline travisyoung

Re: Clutch return spring pressure question

« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2013, 09:23:06 PM »
It's possible the pressure plate failed?

Offline volksnick

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Re: Clutch return spring pressure question

« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 10:19:23 PM »
Unless that spring on the arm coming out of the transmission is visibly broken, I would get prepared to pull the motor to replace the cross shaft. I had the cross shaft spread out on my bus last summer and it required a new cross shaft, a new throw out bearing and a new pressure plate. I hope it's anything else, but it is most likely the throw out bearing coming off the cross shaft.


Don't forget the little clips!

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: Clutch return spring pressure question

« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2013, 10:42:38 AM »
Unless that spring on the arm coming out of the transmission is visibly broken, I would get prepared to pull the motor to replace the cross shaft. I had the cross shaft spread out on my bus last summer and it required a new cross shaft, a new throw out bearing and a new pressure plate. I hope it's anything else, but it is most likely the throw out bearing coming off the cross shaft.


Don't forget the little clips!
Before you have a heart attack first check for a broken clutch cable at the cable adjusting nut(on the tranny) and at the point where the cable goes into the floor pan (the cable goes through a Flex tube). Report what you find please.

Offline Got Bug ?

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Re: Clutch return spring pressure question

« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2013, 09:15:25 PM »
Update: I've done nothing.
I'm lazy and it's HOT out there and I have never seen so many mosquitos in my life!
I should be out there now...shouldn't I ?
But, maybe I was not clear in my description of the problem. The clutch still works, and releases and engages okay. The pedal seems to go down a bit further and the return spring pressure seems about half of what it was last week.
I'm still driving the car without any other noticeable differences.
Just a weak return, lots of free play...
The engine runs fine, but my first gear synchronizer is worn and I have been thinking about replacing the trans some day in the future anyway. That day may be coming sooner than I want it to!
 

Offline volksnick

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Re: Clutch return spring pressure question

« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 11:54:23 PM »
Could have popped one of the strands in the clutch cable. Similar to the dramatic moment in a movie when the rope is slowly breaking a few strands at a time. The reduced number of strands mean the cable stretches a little more with each new break.

Or it could be the splayed cross shaft arm like I explained. That's how mine felt, but it didn't last but a few more shifts before it was gone. It was noisy when the clutch was pressed.

Offline Zen

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Re: Clutch return spring pressure question

« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2013, 10:01:20 AM »
It could also be the pressure plate begining to fail.  I would unhook the clutch cable at the transmission, pull off the bowden tube and take a good look at the cable on that end.  If it's OK, I'd then pull the engine and see what is going on.  Your problem is probably (I'd give it a 99% chance) going to be in one of those areas and will probably be obvious when you see it.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: Clutch return spring pressure question

« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2013, 12:18:12 PM »
It could also be the pressure plate begining to fail.  I would unhook the clutch cable at the transmission, pull off the bowden tube and take a good look at the cable on that end.  If it's OK, I'd then pull the engine and see what is going on.  Your problem is probably (I'd give it a 99% chance) going to be in one of those areas and will probably be obvious when you see it.
Just ck the cable FIRST. Its the easiest thing to start with.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 12:22:41 PM by Ret.Bugtech »

Offline Got Bug ?

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Re: Clutch return spring pressure question

« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2013, 07:32:49 PM »
I like "easiest", I hope to get some time tomorrow evening. I will be helping my son work his tables at Camp Jordan tomorrow...maybe after that. I do appreciate all of the responses. Man, I don't want to pull the engine, though. Does anybody have a suggestion for a good jack to remove the motor ? Maybe one of those Harbor Freight or Sears motorcycle lifts ? Would that work ?
Thanks guys...

Offline travisyoung

Re: Clutch return spring pressure question

« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2013, 11:07:13 PM »
I have always used a floor jack with a board,  motorcycle lift may be a little large

Offline Zen

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Re: Clutch return spring pressure question

« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2013, 05:26:02 AM »
I haven't pulled an engine in a few years, but at one time it wasn't uncommon for me to pull one two or three times in one day.

I would put the bug on ramps and use a cheap, small floor jack.  To make it go high enough I used a short section of a 6X6. To make sure it didn't slip off, I used a large hole saw and cut a circle slightly bigger than the head of the jack about a half inch deep and chiseled it out.  on the other side, I cut a circle slightly bigger than the sump plate about a half inch deep and chiseled it out.  This allowed me to rock the engine around without fear of it falling off the jack as I was working it down out of the engine compartment.

Of course, the block made it too high to get the engine out once it was all the way down, so I would put wood blocks under the heater boxes for it to rest on giving me enough room to remove the jack and take the block out, then I would put the jack head on the sump plate and raise the engine up just enough to remove the blocks, then let the jack down.  The engine would still be too high to roll out from under the car on the jack, so I would tilt it so the front (flywheel end) of the heater boxes hit the ground, then lift it off the jack slightly and pull the jack out.  From there, I would grab the pea-shooters and tilt the engine back just far enough for the blower housing to clear the apron and drag it out.

I know there are much better ways to pull an engine, but it worked for me.  And most of the time I was working alone and outside in dirt (a piece of 3/4 inch plywood for a "shop floor" really helps in this case, but isn't a requirement).  If there weren't a half dozen broken down VWs in the way (which there were most of the time) I would set the ramps up on each side of my sidewalk so I would have a concrete floor for my "shop."  The best I ever pulling an engine was 19 minutes.  That was over the sidewalk.  In the dirt, it typically took about half an hour.

I wish I still had that kind of energy!

Offline Got Bug ?

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Re: Clutch return spring pressure question

« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2013, 10:44:13 PM »
My return spring at the cross shaft is broken. My cable is also coming apart at the adjuster end. I adjusted the free play and will be shifting gingerly for the next few days, and will be hunting a clutch cable and spring tomorrow.
Thanks for the suggestions!!

Offline Got Bug ?

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Re: Clutch return spring pressure question

« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2013, 08:28:47 AM »
New clutch cable...thanks to Mainly Foreign...I bought a new external spring too, but couldn't get the arm off so will try that part again later.
I had two strands left unbroken when I removed the old cable. Wonder how much longer that would have lasted...

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: Clutch return spring pressure question

« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2013, 11:51:07 AM »
New clutch cable...thanks to Mainly Foreign...I bought a new external spring too, but couldn't get the arm off so will try that part again later.
I had two strands left unbroken when I removed the old cable. Wonder how much longer that would have lasted...
About 2 more stop-lights. Be sure to put grease on every inch of the new cable.

Offline Anthony

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Re: Clutch return spring pressure question

« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2013, 11:19:34 AM »
Glad you caught it in time!
For the record, I use one of those motorcycle jacks to R&R engines with a piece of plywood across the arms. Very stable and easier to roll in and out than a floor jack.

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