brake bleeding

Smelly_Cat · « **on:** March 28, 2010, 06:40:32 PM »

ok tell me again. what do I do when I change the front wheel cyl's and I cant get any pressure. I think I let the master cyl run out. I cant get nothing. SC

Zen · « **Reply #1 on:** March 28, 2010, 07:54:40 PM »

The best way is to pressure bleed them. If that's not an option, I'd start by gravity bleeding them (fill the reservior, open the bleeders and let about 2/3 of a the fluid to run out of the reservior) then go to the old two man, pump/bleed/hold method.

On a Beetle, bleed right front first, left front second, right rear third and left rear last. I know . . . you've always been told to bleed the right REAR first or, in other words, as far from the master cylinder as you can get and work your way closer. That's right for almost anything else, but not a Beetle. Something to do with the master cylinder's floating piston for the rear brakes . . . I can't say I fully understand it, but David said that's the way. I tried it. It worked. I'm convenced he was right.

Smelly_Cat · « **Reply #2 on:** March 29, 2010, 07:29:32 PM »

I cant get pressure, I pressure bleed and a continuos stream came out. I had an assistant and did the pedal thing, I'm thinking the master cyl has crapped out. It was loosing pressure before but I wanted to eliminate the front brakes which were pretty crummy.

What master Cyl brand is better Fenco or Cardone

Smelly_Cat · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2010, 10:17:16 PM »

how important is it that the car is flat whem you bleed. i cant do it. Stupies is jacked. should slap the whells on and move hm to a flat surface/ sc

bubbz · « **Reply #4 on:** April 06, 2010, 10:26:37 PM »

did you get a new master?

Ret.Bugtech · « **Reply #5 on:** April 07, 2010, 07:57:44 AM »

Quote from: Zen on March 28, 2010, 07:54:40 PM

The best way is to pressure bleed them. If that's not an option, I'd start by gravity bleeding them (fill the reservior, open the bleeders and let about 2/3 of a the fluid to run out of the reservior) then go to the old two man, pump/bleed/hold method.

On a Beetle, bleed right front first, left front second, right rear third and left rear last. I know . . . you've always been told to bleed the right REAR first or, in other words, as far from the master cylinder as you can get and work your way closer. That's right for almost anything else, but not a Beetle. Something to do with the master cylinder's floating piston for the rear brakes . . . I can't say I fully understand it, but David said that's the way. I tried it. It worked. I'm convenced he was right.

This bleeding , right front, left front etc, etc method is for the 2-stage master cly. only. ( VW shop bulletin) . My pick of master clys are the ATE or Varga brands.

Smelly_Cat · « **Reply #6 on:** April 07, 2010, 05:38:43 PM »

i got a rebuilt MS, so it should bleed ok if its on a jack.

Smelly_Cat · « **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2010, 02:01:43 PM »

Update, a Couple a years ago I got some cheapo internet brakes hoses . They appear to be drooling a bit were they connect to the metal ends. Now I Ordered 2 hose for 17 bucks each. Maybe this will fix this hunk. I feeling rather testy. SC

Smelly_Cat · « **Reply #8 on:** April 11, 2010, 02:25:22 PM »

Installed the 2 new hoses. Still broke. no pedal pressure. Argh

Ret.Bugtech · « **Reply #9 on:** April 11, 2010, 03:10:03 PM »

I don't know about your rebuilt M.C. but new ones come with a plug in the inlet (2) pipes for the fluid from res. If you don't have the plugs you can try loosening one of the front wheel steel lines at the master cly. and see if you can get some fluid to pump out. You could also take one of the hoses off the res.line and see if you have fluid even getting to the master Cly. Just for the hell of it check the front to rear steel line for being rusted in half right by the clutch pedal. You can pump fluid right in the floor board and never see it until you get your nose down there. Are your brakes adjusted up good ?

Smelly_Cat · « **Reply #10 on:** April 11, 2010, 04:49:38 PM »

Thanks Bugtech, I'm at my wits end, Bugapulaza is so close.
I have all the brakes tight and dragging,

when I pump about 15 times I start to get pressure, I've. drip bled , pressure bleed, and had a helper pump it tight and I bleed it that way.

I have replaced the line that goes along the floor to the back.

The MS came with plastic bolt plugs.

Both plugs. Pedal rock hard
back brakes connected , front brakes plugged. Pedal rock hard
front brakes connected , Back brakes plugged. Pedal no pressure,
Iv'e repeated this a couple times with same result

once i get pressure . it seems like the pedal holds, and does not go to floor. No drips or hssssss noise .
Once I let off, Pressure goes away and I have to re-pump 15 times.

I ordered another Master Cyl, I can't figure this thing out, Somebodies going to confiscate my shade tree mechanic license.

Ret.Bugtech · « **Reply #11 on:** April 11, 2010, 06:30:15 PM »

I'm not sure what you mean when you say " front brakes plugged" or "rear brakes plugged " Be sure you bleed in this order . Rt front-left front , right rear-left rear.

Smelly_Cat · « **Reply #12 on:** April 11, 2010, 07:16:58 PM »

By plugged I mean, remove the front brake connector and screw in a plastic plug.

When i bleed the front I never get a pedal,
For instance, I remove the back brake line from the master cyl and screw in a plastic plug that complety removes the back brakes from the system. The fronts dont ever get firm. its crazy Sc

Zen · « **Reply #13 on:** April 11, 2010, 08:11:51 PM »

Did you replace the front shoes? If so, adjust the front shoes out as tight as you can get them and see what happens. I've seen shoes that were, I guess for lack of a better way to describe it, "out of round" . . . I could adjust them out where they seemed like they were dragging pretty tight against the drum, but it would only be in one spot. I'd have to pump the pedal several times to get a firm pedal . . . after I tightened 'em up REALLY tight, I had a good firm pedal . . . I backed off just a enough to let the wheel turn. Within a few days, I had a low pedal, but adjusting the shoes out a little took care of the problem. I guess they finally wore themselves round.

Ret.Bugtech · « **Reply #14 on:** April 11, 2010, 10:31:15 PM »

Pay attention. I said loosen one of the FRONT steel lines at the master cyl. not block it off and see if any fluid comes out when you pump. Don't block anything off. Jezz!!

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