Biodiesel

« **on:** December 17, 2004, 11:15:38 AM »

One of the reasons I bought a TDi was that I'd be able to run it on biodiesel made from soy or other crops. I even found a station here in Chattanooga, Midnight Oil on Bonny Oaks at Jersey Pike that sells B20 (20% biodiesel, 80% dino-diesel) at the pump. However, I've been trying to make sense of some discussions online that seem to imply that the newer TDi with the PD-TDi should not run 100% biodiesel. Anyone local know about this?

-Eric

P.S. As of 12/17/04, Midnight Oil sells B20 for $1.89 9/10 per gallon.

vwherb · « **Reply #1 on:** December 17, 2004, 03:18:35 PM »

If we can get Kyle back on here............hint...........hint........... he is very well versed in the cooking oil theory. He's wanting to do it to different diesel engines he has. One is a diesel engine that was transplanted into the stretch vanagon.

Zen · « **Reply #2 on:** December 17, 2004, 05:50:25 PM »

Kyle wants to run his diesel on straight USED vegetable oil. I wouldn't think of trying that on a newer TDI . . . his Vanagonagon is powered by a Turbo Diesel, but it's not a TDI. If you filter it and heat it enough to flow, most older diesel engines will run just fine on vegetable oil. From what I've heard about the TDIs, you don't want to run them on pure vegetable oil.

Bio-Diesel is another story. It is vegetable oil that has been altered to be very, very close to dino-diesel, chemically speaking. I've read stuff on the internet that says don't run it in a TDI, but I've also read articles by folks who say they run bio-diesel in a TDI with no problem.

Like Herb said though, Kyle needs to get involved here . . . he's studied the subject intensely for the last couple of years and is currently working on getting his Vanagonagon converted over to vegetable oil.

Ret.Bugtech · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2004, 11:52:55 AM »

Eric, Check out this web site for making your fuel for as little as 70 cents a gal. with an old water heater. Im looking at this myself.
www.biodieselwarehouse.com
I don`t know about running 100% bio. What I have read about it,It seemed a little complicated to convert to with all the extra stuff you would have to do. I think that I saw that 100% bio would Gel Up around 32 degrees where 20% bio was around - 15 degrees.
OK Kyle , Jump in here and tell us what you have found out.
Get on Google and punch in Bio-Diesel. It will take about 2 days to check it all out. Have fun !! :lol:

Russ · « **Reply #4 on:** December 18, 2004, 09:00:21 PM »

Biodiesel in TN: http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel/retailfuelingsites/showstate.asp?st=TN
Biodiesel in GA: http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel/retailfuelingsites/showstate.asp?st=GA

Russ · « **Reply #5 on:** December 18, 2004, 11:34:11 PM »

I see what you mean - there seems to be some heated discussion going on concerning putting BD in the PD-TDi engines. The common concensus seems to be that VWoA will not honor the warranty if you run bio in your engine.

In some of the things I'm reading, they make reference to "#2 diesel". I'm assuming that's just regular petroleum-based diesel you get at the pump?

You have me very curious now. I didn't know you could get biodiesel anywhere around here. My engine is not a TDi and the warranty is long expired. I'm tempted to drive down to Bonny Oaks and fill up with B20!

Edit: Well I just read somewhere that older cars may require a fuel line replacement since BD could eat through certain types of rubber. Guess I won't rush to fill up now then, but maybe if I get my fuel lines replaced.

Russ · « **Reply #6 on:** December 19, 2004, 02:28:39 PM »

Jeff at work suggested my fuel lines are probably metal, being a diesel engine and all. Can anyone confirm this? Godfather? If so, I should have no problem running B20 right? If that's the case, I may just head to Chattanooga for my next fill-up. Before I do though, I need to confirm that there are no rubber parts in my fuel system or engine. From what I've read, biodiesel in any concentration will be absorbed by natural rubber, and in time cause it to swell and rot. I sure don't want that to happen.

Most all (diesel) cars made after 1996 or so contain no rubber in the system, so they're biodiesel safe. In fact lots of places in Europe already mix biodiesel with their regular diesel. I think in France all the diesel is like 5% bio, and that still is enough to reduce carbon emissions.

Also I've read that it's a good idea to slow the timing on the engine down by about 2 degrees. Is that important?

Ret.Bugtech · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2004, 08:29:22 AM »

Russ, You do have rubber hoses here and there. Back by the fuel tank, at the fuel filter and between the fuel injectors and a few other places.

Russ · « **Reply #8 on:** December 20, 2004, 08:40:14 AM »

Thanks Godfather, I figured you would know. So is it advisable to run B20? Or should I try and replace these rubber parts first?

« **Reply #9 on:** December 22, 2004, 11:36:23 AM »

I spoke with VW Customer Care about Biodiesel and they claim that the blend of biodiesel sold in the US causes engine damage due to long-term buildup. I've asked them for written statement to that effect and they are mailing it to me.

« **Reply #10 on:** December 23, 2004, 11:16:52 AM »

Hey Russ,

Keep an extra fuel filter in the car with you if you decide to start using Biodiesel. Biodiesel has a higher lubricity and is more caustic than normal diesel. As well as possibly eat through any rubber fuel lines, it will clean the scum out of your tank and collect it in the filter.

Kyle · « **Reply #11 on:** December 26, 2004, 11:07:49 PM »

Hey guys, sorry I've not been on much, computer woes... On the bio deal, I think its a scare tatic, I haven't seen any proof it does any long term anything 'cept save a LOT of money! There has been studies and zero coke-ing on the injectors. Any TDI will be built to handle the low sulfer diesel, and therefore is about bullet proof. I'm not going that route because of the involved chemical processes you have to go thru to make it yourself, and the leftover stuff might be hard to get rid of. Good luck...

Russ · « **Reply #12 on:** March 18, 2005, 02:12:42 PM »

Just called Midnite Oil on Bonny Oaks in Chattanooga. Their B20 at the pump is $2.00/gallon. Now that's cheaper than it is for petro-diesel in Ringgold at $2.05. Any reason I shouldn't fill up down at Midnite now?

Ret.Bugtech · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2005, 02:58:29 PM »

Why not ? To bad you don`t have a 55gal drum and a hand pump/trailer. I do not think any fuel is going to get any cheaper anytime soon.

71SuperBee · « **Reply #14 on:** April 27, 2005, 11:15:39 AM »

David,

I think that you are right man, umm can i convert my bug over to a Bio-Diesel?

? WOuldn't that be something? A vegitable bug :lol: :lol: ..

Just kidding...

aaron :lol:

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