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Topic: 69 stock Beetle with 68 engine, popping & spittin  (Read 4687 times)

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69 stock Beetle with 68 engine, popping & spittin

« on: March 22, 2006, 10:47:30 AM »
Recently purchased, it has all new wires, dist cap,rotor,plugs, rebuit carb.

As it idled, it began to just pop ocassionally, then one night I didn't think I was gonna make it home, I checked and fuel is getting to carb,

I was wondering about one of those electronic ignition conversions OR complete dist coil electronic conversion kits. AFTER I find current problem.

I'm NEW to air cooled VW.

I ordered the VW idiot book havent received yet.

Any quick simple troble shooting tips that you can help me with now?

Whats yalls opinion on the electronic stuff? Suggestions on what yall use?

How do you troble shoot that stuff? I don't want to install anything I cant trouble shoot out on the road in the wilderness.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

69 stock Beetle with 68 engine, popping & spittin

« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2006, 11:35:42 AM »
Joel, You being new to the world of VWs, Its a little difficult to try to tell you what the problem may be without getting you really confused, but you could check problems like loose wires at the coil or anywhere in the engine area. You can take the dist.cap off and take a look at the "new"contact points and connections in that area and see if the points are working( opening and closing). You could have some "stuff" in the carb. The timing could be way off ( common problem)Without seeing or hearing whats going on ,it can be a mystery.  These little cars very simple to keep up when you learn what to look for.
    Don't start twisting and turning every screw on the poor thing until you know what they do. I think I spend more time undoing things that people do just to get back to basics and then look for the original problem. I would bet you are going to find the "culprit" around the area the last Human hands touched. This is the case a lot of times.
    There are a lot of "savy" folks in this club so help is not far away. We will get you headed down the right road.
    By the way, Welcome to the VolksFolks forum. Join up if you havin't already. We have a great bunch of VW nuts on the loose out there. :lol:

Offline Ret.Bugtech

69 stock Beetle with 68 engine, popping & spittin

« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2006, 12:05:13 PM »
Oh, About the electronic Ing systems.  A lot of our folks run this system and really like them. If you choose to install one of these units,I would recommend keeping your old contact points and screw in the glove box. These units can and do "crap out" sometimes. Then you are a lost ball in the high weeds. You can then re-install your old points and head for the house.
    There is a lot of pros and cons about these electronic units. Two nice thing about them is ,no point adjustments , timing seems to stay where it belongs. I like points because of the cost and I don't mind messing with them. Right now I can buy point/condenser for about $6.00 and if I replace them every 10-12 thousand miles like you are suppose to and the cost of the electronic unit being ( I might off here) $80-$100 ? Do the math. I guess I'm old school. :roll:

Offline Bugnut

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69 stock Beetle with 68 engine, popping & spittin

« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2006, 05:31:35 PM »
I had that new electric deal,we had this discussion when mine crapped out. Points seem to work fine.I think the elctric ignition is better for the little distributer lag but it's a vw not a stock car anyways.

Offline Zen

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Re: 69 stock Beetle with 68 engine, popping & spittin

« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2006, 12:18:59 AM »
If the popping and spitting just started all at once, one thing to check would be to make sure the spark advance is working correctly.  If you have a timing light, hook it up.  As the engine revs up, the timing should advance (usually 20-25 degrees, give or take a little, depending on the advance curve built into the distributor).  As it slows back down to an idle, it should retard back to where it started from.  If you've got a "009" distributor, the newer versions are bad about having one (or both) of the springs come off the weights . . . then when you rev the engine up the timing advances too fast and when the engine slows back down the timing either doesn't retard or takes too long to retard.

RetBugtech knows his stuff!  Listen to him.  Don't mess with anything until you've got a good understanding of what it does and how it's supposed to work.

Quote from: "Joel"
I ordered the VW idiot book havent received yet.


That is a GREAT book and every air-cooled VW owner should have one and read it cover to cover at least once . . . but you will also need a "REAL" manual if you plan on doing most of your own mechanic work.  A Haynes manual is OK, but a Bentley is better.

Quote from: "Joel"
I don't want to install anything I cant trouble shoot out on the road in the wilderness.


Those electronic ignition units are great!  BUT, when they quit, they quit.  They usually don't start acting up and give you a little warning.  They will be fine and then just quit.  Overall, they are WAY more dependable than points, but if they go out, they are gone!  Points, on the other hand . . . you can pull out, clean 'em up, file on 'em a little, put 'em back in and adjust them . . . no matter how bad they get you can usually get 'em working good enough to get you back home.  Like Bugtech said, if you do go with an electronic unit, keep a set of points and a condensor and the screws to install them in a zip lock bag in the glove box.  In fact, it's not a bad idea to carry those parts in your glove box if you are still running points.  I'm with Bugtech on this one . . . points are cheap . . . easy enough to work with . . . and cheap . . . and reasonably dependable . . . and cheap.  Electronic units are VERY dependable while they are working.  They WILL outperform points while they are working.  BUT,  they are expensive.  And if they go, they are gone . . . and they are expensive to replace.  Did I mention that points are cheap and the electronic units are expensive?  If I didn't, I think Bugtech did.  Just in case neither of us said it . . . Points are cheap.  Electronic units are expensive.   :wink:

Offline Zen

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69 stock Beetle with 68 engine, popping & spittin

« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2006, 10:21:23 PM »
:whistle:  OK, I'm real bad about not taking my own advice . . . you know the old saying, "Take my advice. I'm not using it."

About 4 years ago I was at Circle Yer Wagens and ran up on a super bargin on Pertronix Ignitor.  I gave $20 for it.  The guy who had it for sale bought it to install on a rail buggy and sold the buggy before he bolted it on.  The instructions and the special screw to install it were missing, but it was brand new . . . and cheap.  So I thought I'd give an electronic unit a try.  I got home, took it out of Joy's convertible . . . and never saw it again.

Fast forward to a couple of months ago.  About the same time I lost that electronic ignition unit, the brake booster in my 88 Buick Reatta went bad.  The booster is a very rare, very expensive part, so the Reatta had been parked in the back yard for the past 4 years.  I finally found a brake booster several months ago on eBay.  A couple of months ago I finally installed it and put the Reatta back on the road.  Once I had it going, I started cleaning out the 4 years of junk I'd been hiding in it.  Guess what I found in the glove box?  Yep, my missing Ignitor.  8-[

Just for kicks, I decided to installed it in Homer.  I had to make a special screw in my machine shop (a side grinder in one hand and a drill in the other . . . somehow I survived the ordeal with all 9 fingers  :shock:  WHEW . . . I miscounted . . . all 10 fingers  :lol: )  Anyway, I got it installed.  Then I had to figure out where top dead center was on my pully then using a tape measure, a degree pulley on another car and a file, I made me a 32 degrees before top dead center notch.  I stared it up, set it to 32 degrees BTDC notch under full advance, locked it down and took it for a drive.   :!:  :occasion5:  :salute:  =D>  :thumbs-up:  :occasion5:  :hippy2:  :salute:  =D>

I'm hooked.  I take back everything I ever said about sticking with points.  Invest in an electronic ignition unit.  You won't be sorry!  Just keep your points, condensor and the screws in a baggy in the glove box in case the unit goes out while you're on the road.  Or better yet, keep and extra electronic unit in the glove box.  It is unbelievable how much of a differance it makes!!!!!   8)

Offline Gobusgo

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69 stock Beetle with 68 engine, popping & spittin

« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2006, 02:25:35 AM »
Quote
Invest in an electronic ignition unit. You won't be sorry!


Yep.  Both of my buses ('78 and '79) have had the Compufire electronic ignition system in them for the past several years.  I have noticed stronger startups and quicker accelerations in both of them.  With points, the performance starts to lag as they start to wear (and pit on one side, build up on the other side), which like Zen said, you can file them down and re-set the gap and get yourself home (maybe even run with them like that for a while).  

I got no problems with points and condenser...I carry spares with me.  It's just that I tried the electronic ignition with one bus and liked it so much that I put it in the other bus as well.  Of course, there are choices to make...$80 + cap and rotor - to not have to adjust and replace points and condenser (until the unit takes a dump on you), or $15 + cap and rotor - every 10-12,000 miles.

Note: You only have to change the cap and rotor every tune-up time with the electronic ignition.

VW put the points in them at the factory.  But didn't they put the electronic ignition in some later model air-cooleds?  California models maybe? I could of swore that some Vanagons came with an electronic ignition.

Quote
keep a set of points and a condensor and the screws to install them in a zip lock bag in the glove box.


Good idea Zen.  I put the screws in the empty boxes the Compufire systems came in, which are on a shelf in my garage.  I need to put the screws in baggies with the points and condensers that I have stashed in the buses for "just in case".  Kind of defeats the purpose of having the spare parts if you don't have the hardware to install them, doesn't it?

Offline copperjewel

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69 stock Beetle with 68 engine, popping & spittin

« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2006, 02:54:06 AM »
:D I agree we run MSD 6AL Box with rev limiter, Billet Distributor, Blaster 2 coil, and MSD wires. So far it has been no problem for us.

As far as prices go this is the best deal I found on this setup: Prices are a tad bit higher than when we got them in 2000/2001 LOL!!!! Not as much as some other stuff. Like GAS!!!

MSD 6AL Ignition Box- - - - - - - -   $229.70
MSD Blaster 2 Coil- - - - - - - - - - - $  34.87
MSD VW Type 1 Billet Distributor- - $228.17
MSD Wires - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -$  50.30

Total: $543.04

Im sure you can find a good deal on the samba site for this or similiar  stuff or at the show would be a great place to look!!!!

Offline vwherb

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69 stock Beetle with 68 engine, popping & spittin

« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2006, 07:45:56 AM »
OK, here goes my 2 cents worth. I installed electronic ignition in my split window bus shortly after buying her about 7 years ago. Two trips were made to Florida (Bug Jam in Tampa), several trips to Sevierville to CYW in addition to other trips and driving around town. My bus has been down for 2 years now with other major problems but NOT a problem with the electric ignition. I would always check my timing before any major trip and it was always set where I had set it on installation. I'm sold on electronic ignition but I do carry a set of points and condenser just in case.  :D

Offline Bugnut

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69 stock Beetle with 68 engine, popping & spittin

« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2006, 07:58:31 AM »
I agree that it runs smoother,I just had one that did crap out earlier. i've never tried Msd products on the bug but had them in a rice burner and it is nice.

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